The Security Of The Believer

[timemeddler]

He denied the Lord before the infilling of the Holy Ghost was given at the day of Pentecost which empowers Christians for service.

Those that know their bible know there's a difference between getting born again and afterward getting filled with the Holy Ghost.

circuitous logic that doesn't clarify what you said, those that know their bible know getting saved requires the holy spirit, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Repentance is taught everywhere in the bible sometimes directly to believers after the resurrection, so I'm not sure why you think christians are immune to sin, The bible talks about adultery in proverbs as though it's an unescapable no exceptions sin that you're stuck in forever, but we see examples in the bible where it's wasn't, david, the woman caught in adultery, many things are written as general rules of thumb.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Well, I say go find a Grace bible church. Sit and study for a year or so. Get to know the Lord Jesus Christ and His Grace.......And you will get the answers you are looking for.

If you're asking these questions, you don't know Him that well yet. And you don't know His Grace that well yet.

I already know the answers... I was poking fun at the false eternal security belief that leads many to believe they can live in sin and still be saved.

I used to go to one of those "free grace" churches and the Lord led me to leave because of all the false doctrines they put out. So, thanks, but NO thanks.

circuitous logic that doesn't clarify what you said

Sorry to hear you were not able to understand what I wrote.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Obviously because you never set out to read about those getting filled with the Holy Spirit as a separate experience after they had been born again.

You probably go to a church that teaches against this even though it's in the Bible so I wouldn't expect you to understand since you're not even aware of what this is.

I'm not sure why you think christians are immune to sin

Those that know their bible know how to remain living in repentance as in NOT living in sin.

We can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13) so it's entirely possible to live a lifestyle where we are not doing things we know we shouldn't be doing. Sounds like you may be unaware of this foundational biblical teaching.

 

[Kroogz]

I already know the answers... I was poking fun at the false eternal security belief that leads many to believe they can live in sin and still be saved.

I used to go to one of those "free grace" churches and the Lord led me to leave because of all the false doctrines they put out. So, thanks, but NO thanks.

I know you know the answers. I also know a few. The self righteous need to 'poke' some fun at us lowly sinners so as to puff up their pride. Then they can lay their pretty little head down at night, twist their hair in their fingers, pop their thumbs in their mouth and drift off to a self contented sleep.

I would rather be the humble beggar on my knees.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

And, you're not a Christian???

If you are a lowly sinner, then you should get born again man!

Sorry dude, I thought you were a Christian!

If you have any questions about the faith and how to live as an over comer, let me know.

 

[Kroogz]

And, you're not a Christian???

If you are a lowly sinner, then you should get born again man!

Sorry dude, I thought you were a Christian!

If you have any questions about the faith and how to live as an over comer, let me know.

Have a nice night.

 

[timemeddler]

Obviously because you never set out to read about those getting filled with the Holy Spirit as a separate experience after they had been born again.

You probably go to a church that teaches against this even though it's in the Bible so I wouldn't expect you to understand since you're not even aware of what this is.

Are you refering to events in acts like speaking in tongues where there was a special outpouring of the holy spirit?

Those that know their bible know how to remain living in repentance as in NOT living in sin.

We can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens us (Philippians 4:13) so it's entirely possible to live a lifestyle where we are not doing things we know we shouldn't be doing. Sounds like you may be unaware of this foundational biblical teaching.

I already know not to live in sin, as for phillipians is that a typo? "where we are not doing things we know we shouldn't be doing" it reads as a double negative. I don't disagree one can sink back into a state of unbelief(unsaved), I just don't buy the view that you have to remain totally sin free to do so but we have to deal with it when we become aware of a problem. "

19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.--James Chapter 5.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Have a nice night.

You as well.

Hope that lowly sinner thing gets better!

Are you refering to events in acts like speaking in tongues where there was a special outpouring of the holy spirit?

Why not study this for yourself and find out?

I just don't buy the view that you have to remain totally sin free

After a few decades of being a Christian... why wouldn't I grow spiritually to the point that I very rarely sin?

Is there a problem with knowing what should not be done and then... NOT doing them?

Do I need to sin or something? Should I go do something bad just so I'll be a "sinner" like many Christians are taught that they are and go around saying that they are... which results in many laying down and decide to go ahead and do some sin!

So many churches teach that we are all born sinners and we just can't help but sin everyday in thought word and deed, and if one hears that long enough... they'll start sinning!

Doing things they know they should not be doing, fully aware what they are doing is wrong but... meh, who cares because most churches also teach it's not possible to lose your salvation.

Lots of people hear all this and think it doesn't really matter if they do some sin stuff! I mean, just don't let the pastor or any of those deacon guys find out!

 

[timemeddler]

You as well.

Hope that lowly sinner thing gets better!




Why not study this for yourself and find out?





After a few decades of being a Christian... why wouldn't I grow spiritually to the point that I very rarely sin?

Is there a problem with knowing what should not be done and then... NOT doing them?

Do I need to sin or something? Should I go do something bad just so I'll be a "sinner" like many Christians are taught that they are and go around saying that they are... which results in many laying down and decide to go ahead and do some sin!

So many churches teach that we are all born sinners and we just can't help but sin everyday in thought word and deed, and if one hears that long enough... they'll start sinning!

Doing things they know they should not be doing, fully aware what they are doing is wrong but... meh, who cares because most churches also teach it's not possible to lose your salvation.

Lots of people hear all this and think it doesn't really matter if they do some sin stuff! I mean, just don't let the pastor or any of those deacon guys find out!

arrogance, denying one has sin(both sins), I give up.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He denied the Lord before the infilling of the Holy Ghost was given at the day of Pentecost which empowers Christians for service.

Those that know their bible know there's a difference between getting born again and afterward getting filled with the Holy Ghost.

So your saying if Peter died before pentecost he would have went to hell?

I go by what the scripture says. You are welcome to believe whatever it is that you';re going to believe.

Since 1 John 1:9 says God will cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness then I'll take that over those that doubt what God says in His Word. After that, I'm not going to willingly or knowingly engage in sinful behavior.

Those that are led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14) and He's certainly not leading me to go do sin.

But your not going by what scripture says

Scripture says if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves
Scripture says if we say we have not sinned, we call him a liar
Scripture says when we do sin (and we will) we confess those sins..

I'm questioning those who claim one can never lose their salvation.

So your questioning God?

Some hear people teach this un biblical message and believe it's true and so they continue living in sin and go to churches that tell them "well, you're still saved because you have a good heart" even though they are living in sin.

John said whoever sins has never seen or known God. whoever is born of God can not live in sin.

What part of Gods promise and power do you fail to trust?

Many churches teach that all our future sins are already forgiven even before those sins are committed. Many who hear this think "wow! I can keep living in sin and still be saved cause it's all good" It's a stumbling block to others

A person who has truly repented does not think this.. Only licentious people think this, And they never repented..

PS. All your sins were future when Christ died.. He died for all of them.. Thats why he can give you the promise you will never die, but live forever..

Well God taught me out of my bible that I should awake unto righteousness and sin not!

So you can worry about your sin, and I'll continue being led by the Holy Ghost Who does not lead me to sin!

Who said anything about the HS leading you to sin?

Come on man, Are you going to put words in peoples mouths now?

Now, if you are talking about falling short of God's absolute perfection by making mistakes such as dropping something or not remembering to do something, then yes we make those types of mistakes which are totally different from sinful behavior.

Oh, I see, Your sins are oopsies. You stumble and make mistakes..

I say you do not understand what sin is, If you did. you would not say this

I mean what kind of sin are you guys doing anyway? You folks believe you are supposed to sin every day ion thought word and deed because you were born a sinner and you cannot help it?

I do?? When Did I ever say this, there you go adding words to our words again.

Come on man, Wake up

Here's one that irritates people like that:

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin.

Wow! How did thise get in the bible if it's not true???

How do you think we came to Christ in the first place?

Read the next verse.

if we say we have (right here and right now) no sin we deceive ourselves..

Who is the deceived on here?

1 John 3:6 says Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

See above, Taking a verse out of context hurts your case

1 John 2:1 says I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Amen, but why did you leave the next verse out?
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1 John 3:8 says He that committeth sin is of the devil

Amen, he who lives in sin is of the devil. Those born of God can not live in sin (see above)

1 Corinthians 15:34 says Awake to righteousness, and sin not

It might be a good idea for you all to read ALL of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John!

it might be a good idea if you read the whole word and stop plucking different verses out of context to excuse your sin. or deny it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Well, I say go find a Grace bible church. Sit and study for a year or so. Get to know the Lord Jesus Christ and His Grace.......And you will get the answers you are looking for.

If you're asking these questions, you don't know Him that well yet. And you don't know His Grace that well yet.

I would say he does not know it at all.. He still needs to repent.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I know you know the answers. I also know a few. The self righteous need to 'poke' some fun at us lowly sinners so as to puff up their pride. Then they can lay their pretty little head down at night, twist their hair in their fingers, pop their thumbs in their mouth and drift off to a self contented sleep.

I would rather be the humble beggar on my knees.

don't forget pumping his chest..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And, you're not a Christian???

If you are a lowly sinner, then you should get born again man!

Sorry dude, I thought you were a Christian!

If you have any questions about the faith and how to live as an over comer, let me know.

I would not go to you. You have not admitted your sin and excuse your sin. You lower the standard of the law so you can fit in it. The pharisees were like you.

When you want to know about faith. Come see us.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

wow.

self righteousness is deep in this thread..

 

[Chester]

if you chose one day to deny him. Your called an antichrist.

and John said you were never of us.

so while you may claim you were of us.. I must go with John..

So you acknowledge the possibility that I could deny Christ - and I agree with you . . .
But now in your view if I would deny Christ then that would be proof positive that I was never born again in the first place.

Hence in your view I need to continue having faith in God and I need to continue doing good deeds in order to be sure that I was actually saved correctly when I made that initial committment. If I don't keep on living a good life then it might be that I was never saved to begin with.

I teach at a Bible college and have had many students come here wrestling with assurance of salvation because of the aftermath of the kind of teaching and theology that it seems you are promoting. They go back and try again to be "born again" and yet fear that they didn't do it the right way! When they are caught in patterns of sin they fear they are not saved. My approach is simply to teach that salvation comes when you believe (cling to/need/grab hold of) into Jesus Christ. I am not saved because I made a "committment" of some kind 40 years ago; I know that I am saved because today I believe in Him!

 

[Cameron143]

He denied the Lord before the infilling of the Holy Ghost was given at the day of Pentecost which empowers Christians for service.

Those that know their bible know there's a difference between getting born again and afterward getting filled with the Holy Ghost.




I go by what the scripture says. You are welcome to believe whatever it is that you';re going to believe.

Since 1 John 1:9 says God will cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness then I'll take that over those that doubt what God says in His Word. After that, I'm not going to willingly or knowingly engage in sinful behavior.

Those that are led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14) and He's certainly not leading me to go do sin.







I'm questioning those who claim one can never lose their salvation.

Some hear people teach this un biblical message and believe it's true and so they continue living in sin and go to churches that tell them "well, you're still saved because you have a good heart" even though they are living in sin.

Many churches teach that all our future sins are already forgiven even before those sins are committed. Many who hear this think "wow! I can keep living in sin and still be saved cause it's all good" It's a stumbling block to others





Well God taught me out of my bible that I should awake unto righteousness and sin not!

So you can worry about your sin, and I'll continue being led by the Holy Ghost Who does not lead me to sin!

Now, if you are talking about falling short of God's absolute perfection by making mistakes such as dropping something or not remembering to do something, then yes we make those types of mistakes which are totally different from sinful behavior.

I mean what kind of sin are you guys doing anyway? You folks believe you are supposed to sin every day ion thought word and deed because you were born a sinner and you cannot help it?

Here's one that irritates people like that:

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin.

Wow! How did thise get in the bible if it's not true???

1 John 3:6 says Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:1 says I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

1 John 3:8 says He that committeth sin is of the devil

1 Corinthians 15:34 says Awake to righteousness, and sin not

It might be a good idea for you all to read ALL of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John!

I'm not trying to trick you here. You say you trust what the word of God says. I'm simply asking questions to see if this is so. Can you please answer my questions?

 

[Kroogz]

I am not saved because I made a "committment" of some kind 40 years ago; I know that I am saved because today I believe in Him!

It's the opposite for me. I know I am saved today because of His character and nature and what He has promised me. I could waiver and fail at any time.......Not Him. And because I know his words to me and trust Him, I was saved FOREVER 25 years ago the moment I trusted in Him for salvation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So you acknowledge the possibility that I could deny Christ - and I agree with you . . .
But now in your view if I would deny Christ then that would be proof positive that I was never born again in the first place.

Hence in your view I need to continue having faith in God and I need to continue doing good deeds in order to be sure that I was actually saved correctly when I made that initial committment. If I don't keep on living a good life then it might be that I was never saved to begin with.

I teach at a Bible college and have had many students come here wrestling with assurance of salvation because of the aftermath of the kind of teaching and theology that it seems you are promoting. They go back and try again to be "born again" and yet fear that they didn't do it the right way! When they are caught in patterns of sin they fear they are not saved. My approach is simply to teach that salvation comes when you believe (cling to/need/grab hold of) into Jesus Christ. I am not saved because I made a "committment" of some kind 40 years ago; I know that I am saved because today I believe in Him!

In My view

John said they (the antichrist, the one who deny's God) Was never of us, if they were they never would have left.

if your born again, No I do not acknowledge you can deny Christ and deny faith in him for your salvation.

I would deny you ever knew God.. and I would be justified. because John said the exact same thing

 

[Jimbone]

So you acknowledge the possibility that I could deny Christ - and I agree with you . . .
But now in your view if I would deny Christ then that would be proof positive that I was never born again in the first place.

Hence in your view I need to continue having faith in God and I need to continue doing good deeds in order to be sure that I was actually saved correctly when I made that initial committment. If I don't keep on living a good life then it might be that I was never saved to begin with.

I teach at a Bible college and have had many students come here wrestling with assurance of salvation because of the aftermath of the kind of teaching and theology that it seems you are promoting. They go back and try again to be "born again" and yet fear that they didn't do it the right way! When they are caught in patterns of sin they fear they are not saved. My approach is simply to teach that salvation comes when you believe (cling to/need/grab hold of) into Jesus Christ. I am not saved because I made a "committment" of some kind 40 years ago; I know that I am saved because today I believe in Him!

This whole comment reeks of someone who has never felt the transforming power of our King Jesus. It really does. The idea that you "need to have" ANYTHING that you can produce to be sure of anything that has to do with our salvation is a false teaching.

To me this is the biggest disconnect between the two sides of this debate. Why do you not see that believing that YOU have to do something after God saves you by His grace is a 100% false teaching and it is you usurping God's' glory for yourself. The way you present this is a burden, the heaviest of burdens heaped on the backs of people that can never carry the weight. I liked a question I saw presented to someone that shares your belief in this works based salvation. What is you do everyday to retain God's free gift? How do you know you haven't forfeited your salvation yet?

See here is where we differ, you teach that once we are saved we better make sure we do enough work to keep saved. And if you make it then you'll have a reason to boast. Exactly what scripture says, right?
I would say once we are saved we WILL produce works, by His power in me, for His glory alone, something I would have never done before He changed me, in fact things I NEVER could have done without Him in me. ALL glory to the God who saved me.

You'd say "we have to, by our will, in order to keep saved", I say "I will by the power, and in the name of, Jesus our God who saves us".

One of these lines up with ALL scripture, one leaves out quite a few.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

arrogance, denying one has sin(both sins), I give up.

Still think these bible verses are not true???

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not

Should these scripture references be removed from our Bible or otherwise ignored as though the Lord never said these things???

I'm not trying to trick you here. You say you trust what the word of God says. I'm simply asking questions to see if this is so. Can you please answer my questions?

What was the question that you cannot get an answer for by reading God's word?

 

[Cameron143]

Still think these bible verses are not true???

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not

Should these scripture references be removed from our Bible or otherwise ignored as though the Lord never said these things???





What was the question that you cannot get an answer for by reading God's word?

Your answers.