What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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Those are the only kind of people whom God saves because until and unless salvation is first given, we are, and remain, unrepentant sinners.

No.. God does not first grant salvation and then work to bring the person to repentance... The LORD first works upon the sinner through the power of His Holy Spirit and then when the person responds in the right way to the conviction of the Holy Spirit thats when God grants the sinner forgiveness for their sins and eternal life with Him in eternity..

 

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In Acts 9, God knocks Saul to the ground saying "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?".
Saul had not repented, if fact he was on his way, breathing threats against the disciples of the Lord.

Paul was not saved at the time He was knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus.. But Paul had to repent as he completed His journey to damascus where He was baptised by a Christian.. The process is always the same .. Repent , Believe Jesus , trust in the Atonement Jesus secured by His death upon the cross..

 

[Magenta]

I stand corrected. Your words are words of wisdom. there are many spiritual things that are of the world. I admire your perception of the scriptures.

Thank you for your very kind words, Forest...

You know, I realize we are not in 100% agreement on all things, but I still notice your absence when you are not here. I hope
all is well with you. Some people disappear and we never know what happened to them. I am glad you keep returning .

 

[Mem]

"It is not hard...No, the word is very near you...

Because the Bible makes that clear - that the Holy Spirit indwells only those whom God saves and makes born again, from which, are they given faith as a gift: salvation first, from salvation, faith, from faith, belief. Given that God made a promise (which He did make), then as it is His promise, He therefore alone took upon Himself sole responsibility to bring it all completely to fruition, otherwise, the promise could not be guaranteed, and hence, God could not make it, but it was made by Him. IOW, for it to come true, God had to make Himself guarantor of His own promise - its fulfillment not being dependent upon anything outside of Himself, who would make it all transpire. Consequently, a person's belief, if true belief, had also to be included as part of His promise, because were the giving of belief not part of the promise, yet it still being a requirement to receive the promise, then God could not rightfully have made the promise because things outside of God's control could and would have, invalidate it - notice in Rom 9:8, the "children of the promise" part - that of the promise itself, only certain specific spiritual children are brought forth. As such, they all, and they alone, must come to belief. Should any not, or should it not be of them alone. then the promise becomes of no effect because it would be broken, which would be impossible.

[Rom 9:8 KJV]
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Heb 6:17 KJV]
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:

[1Pe 1:3-4 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Rom 8:9, 14 KJV]
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ...
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[1Co 3:16 KJV]
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

I very much agree with you that God gave mankind an amazing ability to reason out worldly things, but according to 1 Cor 2:14, mankind has no ability to think on things that are spiritual until he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Eph 2:1-5).

...it is in your mouth (the gift of speech) and in your heart, so that you may obey it (Deuteronomy 30:14).

 

[rogerg]

..it is in your mouth (the gift of speech) and in your heart, so that you may obey it (Deuteronomy 30:14).

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[rogerg]

No.. God does not first grant salvation and then work to bring the person to repentance... The LORD first works upon the sinner through the power of His Holy Spirit and then when the person responds in the right way to the conviction of the Holy Spirit thats when God grants the sinner forgiveness for their sins and eternal life with Him in eternity..

Salvation and remission of sin must first be given by God. From/with that, He also gives faith and belief. Until and unless that occurs, no one can truly comprehend nor believe in God's salvation of mercy and grace through Christ - it does not happen in the reverse. All things pertaining to salvation are gifts freely given through Christ alone to His chosen, and not by man, because Christ alone is the Saviour and man is not.

[Luk 1:77, 78 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Thank you for your very kind words, Forest...

You know, I realize we are not in 100% agreement on all things, but I still notice your absence when you are not here. I hope
all is well with you. Some people disappear and we never know what happened to them. I am glad you keep returning .

I appreciate your concern. I thank the Lord every day for blessing me far beyond my deserving. He has guided me in good paths that I would not have chosen myself, and with my stubborn demeanor, he has been as forceful with me as he was with Jonah.

I have had both knee joints replaced due to carrying mail for 18 years. Had two episodes of blood clots. had my jugular vein severed. Lost control of my pickup and rolled it off the embankment of the Red river, totaling it beyond repair, and God brought me through those with no complications.

I had a wonderful experience when I totaled my pickup. It was on a bright sunny afternoon, and the rollover was in slow motion which seemed like about 20 minutes. The whole inside of the pickup was light up with a bright, soothing. light even under the dash which usually is shadowy, and I can't began to tell you how peaceful a feeling it was. I came out of it without a scratch, and was wide awake during the whole episode. I knew, instantly, that Jesus was with me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rogerg, I have been following your posts, and agree with most of your interpretations of the scriptures.

I think that Rom 11 gives us insight to the division of spiritual Israel that God has blinded to see the truth because of their disobedience, but has reserved a remnant of Israel that he has revealed the truth of Christ's doctrine. Those of Israel who are blinded are referred to as the lost sheep of the house of Israel, (Matt 10:6) They are not lost eternally, but are lost to the knowledge of the truth.

It is the responsibility of the remnant to preach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not to save (deliver) them eternally, but to deliver them from their ignorance of the knowledge of the truth.

I believe Rom 10 corresponds with this.

 

[Mem]

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Who blinded their minds?

 

[rogerg]

Rogerg, I have been following your posts, and agree with most of your interpretations of the scriptures.

I think that Rom 11 gives us insight to the division of spiritual Israel that God has blinded to see the truth because of their disobedience, but has reserved a remnant of Israel that he has revealed the truth of Christ's doctrine. Those of Israel who are blinded are referred to as the lost sheep of the house of Israel, (Matt 10:6) They are not lost eternally, but are lost to the knowledge of the truth.

It is the responsibility of the remnant to preach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not to save (deliver) them eternally, but to deliver them from their ignorance of the knowledge of the truth.

I believe Rom 10 corresponds with this.

Hi ForestGreenCook. How have you been? Haven't spoken with you for a while.

I do not believe the Jews (nor anyone else) were blinded because of their disobedience, instead, I believe they were disobedient because they were blinded - that everyone from the womb, starts out in that spiritual state. We must all first become saved by God (Jew and Gentile alike) to become unblinded. However, God did not intend that it be so for everyone - whether Jew or Gentile.
I believe that through Christ, relative to salvation, within the Bible, that only two categories of people exist: the elect/saved, and those who aren't. In terms of salvation then, by Christ, Israel became comprised of only the elect/saved, which are peoples taken out of all backgrounds - they, being made into true spiritual Jews and are called by the name of Israel - the Israel of God - so, based upon election, the distinction between the two was erased - they (the elect), have been made one through Christ and baptized into the Israel of God. God brought to fruition only one salvation, not two, so all of the saved, have, are, and must be saved for only one reason: that they are of the elect. God, through election, has created a super-type under which all of the saved fall, and which supersedes and eliminates all prior sub-types.
The apostles preached the gospel to the Jews first because it was required of them by God to do so, but of those preached to, only the elect would/could respond to it. The Jews, as a people (except for certain individual exceptions), rejected Christ and the gospel, and for the most part, they still do and will do.
I do not believe that all of the Jews of the nation of Israel will be saved just because they are of the nation of Israel - which would mean a second type of salvation exists - but only those who are of the elect will be saved and the others not: it happens (or not) the same way for everyone.

[Rom 11:7-8 KJV]
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Act 13:46 KJV]
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

 

[rogerg]

Who blinded their minds?

Satan - he is the god of this world.

 

[BillyBob]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Saul was saved at the time he was knocked to the ground. I only intended to show that God does save unrepentant sinners. They do not come to him of themselves, the call go out first and they are unable to resist the call. God takes the 1st step, not the sinner.

Paul was not saved at the time He was knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus.. But Paul had to repent as he completed His journey to damascus where He was baptised by a Christian.. The process is always the same .. Repent , Believe Jesus , trust in the Atonement Jesus secured by His death upon the cross..

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

how do you know whether faith or salvation came first?

Is it Possible With God That the two were Simultaneous, thus solving all Confusion?

Amen.

 

[rogerg]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Saul was saved at the time he was knocked to the ground. I only intended to show that God does save unrepentant sinners. They do not come to him of themselves, the call go out first and they are unable to resist the call. God takes the 1st step, not the sinner.

Saul did become saved then. Jesus, as Saviour, takes all of the steps, man is but the recipient.

 

[BillyBob]

Is it Possible With God That the two were Simultaneous, thus solving all Confusion?

I think you may be right, or at least close together! In my case I was attending church on a regular basis. However, I sat in the pew as a lonely sinner who considered themselves beyond forgiveness! I felt like there was no hope. The sermon being preached was “The Ax Head Floats”. In summary the preacher gave several examples among which he said “Is there any sinner who cannot be saved, “IF INDEED THE AX HEAD FLOATS”. Hearing that one simple phrase broke my heart and I later turned to God and asked for forgiveness.

 

[Magenta]

I appreciate your concern. I thank the Lord every day for blessing me far beyond my deserving. He has guided me in good paths that I would not have chosen myself, and with my stubborn demeanor, he has been as forceful with me as he was with Jonah.

I have had both knee joints replaced due to carrying mail for 18 years. Had two episodes of blood clots. had my jugular vein severed. Lost control of my pickup and rolled it off the embankment of the Red river, totaling it beyond repair, and God brought me through those with no complications.

I had a wonderful experience when I totaled my pickup. It was on a bright sunny afternoon, and the rollover was in slow motion which seemed like about 20 minutes. The whole inside of the pickup was light up with a bright, soothing. light even under the dash which usually is shadowy, and I can't began to tell you how peaceful a feeling it was. I came out of it without a scratch, and was wide awake during the whole episode. I knew, instantly, that Jesus was with me.

That's a lot .. I hope all those things did not happen recently!!! LOL
But even if they did, all the more obvious how awesome is our God.

My left knee gave out on me once at the top of a rather long staircase, causing me to collapse right on the spot, one step away from falling down the stairs. I was nineteen at the time. I had been exercising at home and doing deep knee bends as part of my routine, during which, my knees would crack. A doc said, stop whatever it is you are doing! Otherwise only an operation could say what the matter was. So, I stopped that. I avoid stairs now, too, when I can. My boss used to ask me when he saw me upstairs at work, oh, is your knee better? No, I would tell him, my knees are never going to get better. It comes and goes, and I never know when the pain and debilitation will strike.

I have been in and out of the hospital a number of times since 2020, with three surgeries, an episode of costochondritis, and a couple of rather serious (potentially life-threatening) surgery related complications. The costochondritis was only emergency and not a full-on stay, but while I was relating to them my conditions and the meds I am on and family history etc etc, I commented that I sounded like a walking disaster area! LOL!!! I said that to someone I was corresponding with in a PM, and they said, yeah, you do sound like a walking disaster area. Hahahahahahaha. I have had some pretty close calls automobile accident wise, and always thank God nothing more serious happened. Having an attitude of gratitude works wonders .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hi ForestGreenCook. How have you been? Haven't spoken with you for a while.

I do not believe the Jews (nor anyone else) were blinded because of their disobedience, instead, I believe they were disobedient because they were blinded - that everyone from the womb, starts out in that spiritual state. We must all first become saved by God (Jew and Gentile alike) to become unblinded. However, God did not intend that it be so for everyone - whether Jew or Gentile.
I believe that through Christ, relative to salvation, within the Bible, that only two categories of people exist: the elect/saved, and those who aren't. In terms of salvation then, by Christ, Israel became comprised of only the elect/saved, which are peoples taken out of all backgrounds - they, being made into true spiritual Jews and are called by the name of Israel - the Israel of God - so, based upon election, the distinction between the two was erased - they (the elect), have been made one through Christ and baptized into the Israel of God. God brought to fruition only one salvation, not two, so all of the saved, have, are, and must be saved for only one reason: that they are of the elect. God, through election, has created a super-type under which all of the saved fall, and which supersedes and eliminates all prior sub-types.
The apostles preached the gospel to the Jews first because it was required of them by God to do so, but of those preached to, only the elect would/could respond to it. The Jews, as a people (except for certain individual exceptions), rejected Christ and the gospel, and for the most part, they still do and will do.
I do not believe that all of the Jews of the nation of Israel will be saved just because they are of the nation of Israel - which would mean a second type of salvation exists - but only those who are of the elect will be saved and the others not: it happens (or not) the same way for everyone.

[Rom 11:7-8 KJV]
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Act 13:46 KJV]
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Rogerg, Thanks for your reply. I think that you believe, when the scriptures speak of people being sheep that it is speaking of the elect of God. If so, then who are they speaking of, when they speak of the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

What is your interpretation of Zephaniah third chapter, especially verses 11-13, Who is being spoken of in verse 11 of those that have transgresses against God? Who is the remnant of Israel in verse 13 which do no iniquity?

In trying to understand the scriptures, with the knowledge that they must all harmonize, I struggle with the question of who exactly does the elect of God encompass? Is spiritual Israel represented through Jacob who God changed his name to be called Israel? Rom 9:11).

Is the remnant a small part of spiritual Israel, or is the remnant of Israel the sum total of God's elect?

It is my understanding that only God's born again elect can be "pricked" in their newly heart to feel spiritual guilt, such as is the case in Acts 2:38. Is this your understanding also?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Saul did become saved then. Jesus, as Saviour, takes all of the steps, man is but the recipient.

The group that I worship with are, somewhat divided over whether Paul was regenerated at that time, or whether he was converted at that time. I lean toward the fact that Paul was already regenerated prior to this event, and converted at this event.

 

[The_old_guy]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

God desires all people to be saved, but he doesn't save everyone. There must be a good reason, but he hasn't revealed it to us. Thus, it's a mystery that we can't solve.

 

[Cameron143]

God desires all people to be saved, but he doesn't save everyone. There must be a good reason, but he hasn't revealed it to us. Thus, it's a mystery that we can't solve.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.