The Error of KJV-Onlyism
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pretty sure destroying a church over translation is not biblical.
See the first half of my recent post here. I go into mentioning how the direct references of the Trinity are removed in Modern Bibles.
Indirect references of the Trinity are not as helpful as direct references when witnessing to those who deny the Trinity.
In fact, how could I really know about the Trinity if there are no direct references of such a teaching in Scripture? I would be basing my belief on mere inferences or indirect references in Scripture.
yea nahYou guys should just give up and accept the American dialect, like Portugal did with Brazil...
I like to say God not Gahd
Ahmen not Aymen
but ....thats speaking in tongues for some...a no no.
What, no takers for Da Jesus Book?
Or...is full of errors?
But nobody is actually doing this for the other versions. There are no NIVonlyers.
There are no NASBonlyers.
In all years being on christian forums, esp Bible discussion I have not come across one thread that defends or contends for any other Bible version.
Or...is full of errors?
But nobody is actually doing this for the other versions. There are no NIVonlyers.
There are no NASBonlyers.
In all years being on christian forums, esp Bible discussion I have not come across one thread that defends or contends for any other Bible version.
Because God has the authority to translate his word into any language he sees fit, and that translation be the word of God without error for that language.
Should not the true church stand on the word of God and not a version they know has errors? Have you ever heard a pastor preach and say, “The Bible I’m using has errors, but I’ll correct those errors for you as I go through the passage. You can trust me to know what God really meant to say.”
Technically, the fall was in Adam, who understood the word of God and deliberately disobeyed.
And trangressing the word of God by man doesn't affect God's ability to preserve His word. It's a spurious connection, not causal.
1. I don't care AT ALL about what the enemy wants.
2. Again I don't care at all about what the enemy wants. God has already open my eyes to Truth, resurrected my dead spirit and reconciled it with His Spirit, and given us His word to guide us to all truth. Nobody's arguing anything else, I just believe we had His word before 1611 and an english translation. It's you with the very narrow and close minded way of looking at His word.
3.Strawman appeal to nothing.
4.Another taylormade argument to duct tape your "superior view" above everyone who disagrees with you. I already gave a simple and irrefutable example of a word that was translated VERY poorly in the KJV and poured fuel on the false fire of futurism on an insane level in Mat 24 making people think a conversation about the end of a covenant age is a conversation about the end of the world. Very easy to follow and prove this with the manuscripts we have, the ones they had then, and to crazy amount of new discoveries that we have now in addition to those. The fact of the matter this was a bad translation of the word then as much as it is now. You've just made an unrealistic standard that doesn't allow for you to look at these issues with unbias eyes.
5. So you assert.
6. Are you kidding me? There are so many greek text to draw from it's embarrassing. The bible has so many manuscripts coming from the first century to modern day, and is so well documented that ANY changes or perversions of any of them would be SO apparent. You have to understand the history of the text through the ages to really understand how amazingly God preserved His word through ALL time.
7. To me this is a self defeating comment. You say all trough time God has preserved His word, but it was only available in 1611? Just a weird assertion and reeks of a kind of arrogance. So Gods word wasn't available until the KJV? I don't even know how to approach such a illogical assertion.
8. Kind of like how in 1st century Palestine He used Greek because it was the most used language? Again another argument that just asserts itself with no real way to demonstrate or prove it.
You mostly just believe it because you believe it, and have watch a lot of people and videos of people telling you why it's right with never looking at opposing views and setting all the facts on the table to take it as a whole. It's just a belief you hold that you cannot make with His word that you claim to be so devoted to.
No, that's what I mean by you're relying too much on a translation instead of God. You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it as He has before it existed. Also many people have gotten saved without it even after that was done.
Plus just reading that translation won't make you a better Christian - you need God Himself to empower to follow Him from whichever translation(s) He's helping you with.
Dino, would you please give me two examples of errors in the K.J.B. Give me the verses and why you think they are in error.
2 Corinthians 2:9-11
9 "For to this end also did I write, that I might know the
proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing,
to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us:
for we are not ignorant of his devices.”
Matthew 13:19
"When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not,
then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.“
While the Parable of the Sower is primarily referring to somebody that receives the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in that we believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for our salvation, the Parable can also apply to our not receiving other parts of the Bible (i.e., the Word of God). Meaning, if we do not receive the Bible’s teaching on the doctrines of Purity and Preservation, then those words from the Bible on these topics will be snatched out of our heart by the devil.
You said:
But you cannot be guided into all truth by the movement started by two heretics named Westcott and Hort. All Modern Bibles ultimately come from them and their work involving the New Testament (and their supposedly better manuscripts (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus). These men denied the blood atonement, substitutionary atonement, and they were into Catholicism. Hort called the evangelical as perverted. The Nestle and Aland (NT Greek Critical Text) is barely any different from the Westcott and Hort text of 1881 (According to a Modern Textual Critic, Mr. Epp). The Nestle and Aland 27th edition says it was supervised by the Vatican and if you were to Google “Keith Piper NIV” and go to page 21-22 of that PDF, you would see 14 changes that favor the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catholics wanted to take out King James and his translation with a super bomb. It is known as the gunpowder plot. Westcott and Hort denied the deity of Jesus Christ in their own commentaries. Is it not odd that your Modern Bibles that come from them also waters down the deity of Jesus in a big way? Your probably have no clue as to the depth of this. It’s why I am writing my 101 Reasons for the KJB being the Pure Word of God.
You said:
I believe we did have the Word perfectly before 1611. There is a good chance the Bible existed perfectly with the Waldenses with their Latin Italic Bible. Unfortunately, most of the Waldenses were wiped out at one point in history by the Catholic Church along with their Bibles being destroyed. This is why there are many Latin manuscripts that agree with the King James Bible. But Modern Scholarship conveniently ignores the Latin manuscripts and they ignore any testimonies from early church fathers that supports the KJB.
You said:
While I am sure there were atheists and agnostics before the 1800s (Which caused disagreement with what the Bible said), it was not until the 1800s where Bible believers in the KJB had fought against pre-Westcott and Hort type texts. So KJV Onlyism did not technically exist until the 1800s because people before that time already just accepted the KJB as the Word of God. Yes, you had your small factions like the Puritans who held to the Geneva Bible, but even many of them had eventually abandoned the Geneva Bible over the Anne Hutchinson incident in 1637 (with her trying to push Antinomianism in the Puritan church). One historian notes that this incident was a battle of the Bible translations and the KJB won in the end.
Denying the KJB and it’s preeminence is a denial of history and what the Bible says about itself.
It’s the most printed and influential book in human history.
It is a denial of the doctrines that are changed for the worse and not for the better in Modern Bibles (See here and here for a small list).
No, that's what I mean by you're relying too much on a translation instead of God. You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it as He has before it existed. Also many people have gotten saved without it even after that was done.
Plus just reading that translation won't make you a better Christian - you need God Himself to empower to follow Him from whichever translation(s) He's helping you with.
This is where we disagree strongly. What you propose is Spiritism (i.e., the New Age). Ten people can pray and they each can get different messages on a singular subject or topic. This is why God has written down His Word for us to believe in. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Without the Bible, you would have no faith. I would not know about the gospel unless 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 told me. I would not know about the Trinity and how it is true unless the Bible told me (Like in 1 John 5:7, and the word “Godhead” appearing three times). I would not know Unconditional Eternal Security is false unless the Bible told me. Even the Bereans searched the Scriptures to see whether those things were so or not. They were more noble because of it. In addition, Jesus defeated the devil by quoting Scripture.
Another major problem of your position is that it must ignore all the false doctrines that are in Modern Bibles, as well (See the list here, and here). Oh, but I guess if we just are guided by prayer, we can avoid all these false doctrines? I don’t believe so. Many people have told me that they have prayed for the truth, and they hold to false doctrines. I have seen it a ton of times. You must also ignore Bible history, as well. The KJB has noble and good origins. While the Modern Bible movement started by Westcott and Hort has dark origins. These two men were heretics. It’s not up for debate. It is simply a fact. They denied the blood atonement, the substitutionary atonement. They were into Catholic practices and Hort called the evangelical perverted. They had Unitarians on their team when they created the RV (Revised Version). The list of darkness goes on and on. But you want me to bury my hand in the sand to all this. No thanks. Do your own homework. Look into these things.
No, that's what I mean by you're relying too much on a translation instead of God. You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it as He has before it existed. Also many people have gotten saved without it even after that was done.
Plus just reading that translation won't make you a better Christian - you need God Himself to empower to follow Him from whichever translation(s) He's helping you with.
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
Isaiah 55:8
’For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”
So when you pray for guidance on truth without the Bible, how do you know it’s not your own thoughts?
Mormons claim they have a burning in their bosom to determine the truth.
This again is Spiritism or the New Age.
Did you know that Modern Bibles push New Age teachings?
New Age Teachings are Taught in Modern Bibles:
#1. God is a Spirit is changed to God is Spirit.
John 4:24 KJB
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:24 NKJV
“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
In the KJB, God is A Spirit. God is a Spirit being. He is a Spirit above all spirit beings. But in Modern bibles, this is changed to how God is like the essence of all Spirit or all spiritual things by removing the indefinite article of “a” in the KJB. This kind of thinking is more in line with the New Age in that God is like some kind of spiritual force and not a person (sort of like the force in Star Wars).
#2. A divine sentence is in the lips of the king is changed to: Divination is on the lips of a king.
Proverbs 16:10 KJB
“A divine sentence is in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.”
Proverbs 16:10 NKJV
“Divination is on the lips of the king; His mouth must not transgress in judgment.”
#3. A precious stone is changed to a magic stone or lucky charm.
Proverbs 17:8 KJB
“A gift is as a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it: whithersoever it turneth, it prospereth.”
Proverbs 17:8 ESV
“A bribe is like a magic stone in the eyes of the one who gives it; wherever he turns he prospers.”
Proverbs 17:8 NLT
“A bribe is like a lucky charm; whoever gives one will prosper!”
#4. A sound heart (i.e. right heart) is changed to a tranquil mind or a quiet mind.
Proverbs 14:30 KJB
“A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.”
Proverbs 14:30 NASB
“A tranquil mind gives life to the body, but jealousy rots the bones.”
Proverbs 14:30 BBE (Bible in Basic English)
“A quiet mind is the life of the body, but envy is a disease in the bones.”
#5. The Spirit of adoption is changed to “a spirit of adoption.”
Romans 8:15 (KJB)
“For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
Romans 8:15 NASB 1995
“For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
#6. Matthew 11:3, & Luke 7:19 refer to the New Agers “The Coming One.”
Matthew 11:3 (KJB)
“And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?”
Matthew 11:3 (NKJV)
“and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?””
Luke 7:19 (KJB)
“And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?”
Luke 7:19 (ISV)
“and sent them to the Lord to ask, "Are you the Coming One, or should we wait for someone else?"”
The New Age Movement and the occult are longing for one called the Maitreya. New Ager’s refer to him as the “the Coming One” - AND SO DOES THE NKJV! In Luke 7:19-20 (see also Matt 11:3) John told his disciples to ask Jesus: “Are You THE COMING ONE. . .” In the “The Great Invocation,” a “prayer” highly reverenced among New Agers and chanted to “invoke” the Maitreya, says, “Let Light and Love and Power and Death, Fulfill the purpose of the Coming One.”
Important Note:
Now, some KJB Only Christians believe “Godhead” changed to “divine nature” in Modern bibles is a reference to the “New Age.” But this is not the case. The words, “divine nature” is found in the King James Bible in 2 Peter 1:4. Granted, it is wrong to change the word “Godhead” to the words “divine nature” because the word “Godhead” in the KJB is referring to the Trinity and is correct.
No, that's what I mean by you're relying too much on a translation instead of God. You need to trust God and not a translation - God has the ability to teach you about Christianity without it as He has before it existed. Also many people have gotten saved without it even after that was done.
Plus just reading that translation won't make you a better Christian - you need God Himself to empower to follow Him from whichever translation(s) He's helping you with.
Think. How did Cornelius and his household know about the gospel message that saves? Did they just pray and God revealed the gospel to them? No. If you were to read Acts 10-11, Peter actually preached the gospel message to them, and the Spirit came upon them while he was preaching the good news. If what you say is true, Peter would not even be needed. God could have just came down and told them the gospel but that did not happen. When Peter was preaching at Pentecost to tons of Jews, he was also quoting Scripture. Again, the gospel of our salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 it says according to the Scriptures. This gospel is not according to Spiritism.
No, I'm not proposing spiritism at all, but it's clear that you're relying more on a translation than on God and His work in you. If you really belong to Him, God isn't going to let you be mislead no matter what translation is before you. As it is right now, your trust in a a single translation instead of God has you twisting the meaning of the verses you're using because now you're focusing on New Age ideas when we're not even talking about that. Smh....
No, you're making this into a New Age topic. Stick to what is being discussed at hand. It's about trusting one translation over God and His leading.
You talk about Peter but what you fail to mention is that God was working through Peter - and that WITHOUT the KJV. Peter was being led by God Himself. So as you can see from the example you chose yourself that a Christian can understand accurately and work effectively with God WITHOUT using the KJV.