Regeneration

[Blik]

Hi,

I have a question regarding receiving the Holy Spirit or regeneration (I believe this is when God's grace falls upon someone so that they are able to believe and receive the Holy Spirit. In scripture, there are implications in multiple passages that it is God who initiates the "rebirth" such as in John 1:12-13 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now here is where I get confused. In my personal instance, I grew up going to church as a kid, got baptized, and even did communion BUT I was a kid and didn't understand much. I knew there was a higher power (GOD) and Jesus but that was about it. In my teen/early adult life, I lived life as normal (sinning and not thinking twice about it) and only called out to GOD when I was in trouble or needed something.

Fast forward to the middle of this year and I get hit with guilt like I've never experienced before.....out of nowhere. How can this be? You need to have the Holy Spirit to even be convicted of sin right? How did I get the Holy Spirit if I hadn't took the Christian life seriously my entire life? I have said the sinners prayer before, read a few pamphlets and said I accepted Jesus at one point in my early adult life but still continued on in sin.

I'm puzzled because I thought you had to read the gospels, confess your sins and put your trust in Jesus. My experience wasn't really like this. It was after the conviction (of a particular sin which led to coming clean with other sins) that I repented, asked for forgiveness and decided to learn more about Jesus so that I can put my trust in him and be genuine in my faith. Any thoughts?

We are taught to grow in Christ, and this is a report on your growth.

• Ephesians 4:15: Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ.
• Hebrews 5:14: But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
• Hebrews 6:1: Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God.
• 2 Peter 3:18: But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever!

 

[Nehemiah6]

You need to have the Holy Spirit to even be convicted of sin right?

Not really. The Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinner BEFORE they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and AFTER they hear or read the Gospel. And it is after that that they are regenerated.

For the present all you need to know about Jesus is that He is God who became sinless Man to die for the sins of the whole world, and rose again to give you the gift of eternal life. And that it is His shed blood which makes it possible for God to forgive your sins. Your sins were included at the cross, but unless you obey the Gospel, that will not benefit you. Which means repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ (believing with your whole heart). This also means receiving Him as Lord and Savior and making Him the Lord of your life.

 

[selahsays]

My thoughts “around“ this subject are that our Father in heaven will allow things in our lives sometimes to reach us who have been called in accordance with His purpose, as the apostle Paul was certainly reached, for instance. No altar call was heard by Paul. While traveling to Damascus, God essentially "zapped“ Paul to get his attention—Paul's persecution of Christians was probably starting to really anger God. After all, God had really amazing plans for Paul.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)

For me, even after being born again, I had to experience years of tragedy after tragedy before I could truly know with certainty the hope found in the Word of God (my Savior) and the joy His promises offer to my life. The devastating events in my life were the driving force behind my dive into the Bible. —and here in Jesus’ hug I will stay.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Good day,

I think alot of us who came to Christ had this same thing happen (myself included) where after we left our parents house we tried the world out.. Only to be called back.

Ben born again is just the term that we who were dead. are made alive. And your correct. it is because we in faith received him.

Stick tot he word. There are some odd things out there that can confuse you, Seek the spirit..

 

[ForestGreenCook]

My thoughts “around“ this subject are that our Father in heaven will allow things in our lives sometimes to reach us who have been called in accordance with His purpose, as the apostle Paul was certainly reached, for instance. No altar call was heard by Paul. While traveling to Damascus, God essentially "zapped“ Paul to get his attention—Paul's persecution of Christians was probably starting to really anger God. After all, God had really amazing plans for Paul.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)

For me, even after being born again, I had to experience years of tragedy after tragedy before I could truly know with certainty the hope found in the Word of God (my Savior) and the joy His promises offer to my life. The devastating events in my life were the driving force behind my dive into the Bible. —and here in Jesus’ hug I will stay.

View attachment 259194

Your understanding of the scriptures are, for the most part, in harmony with my understanding. Keep preaching it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Good day,

I think alot of us who came to Christ had this same thing happen (myself included) where after we left our parents house we tried the world out.. Only to be called back.

Ben born again is just the term that we who were dead. are made alive. And your correct. it is because we in faith received him.

Stick tot he word. There are some odd things out there that can confuse you, Seek the spirit..

Receiving God is not what made us spiritually alive. We receive God after we are made alive spiritually. According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man cannot receive God, until he has been born again of the Spirit.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Receiving God is not what made us spiritually alive. We receive God after we are made alive spiritually. According to 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man cannot receive God, until he has been born again of the Spirit.

We are born again after we look to the cross. (john 3)

Stop thinking you were made alive while still under the penalty of sin. It did not happen.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We are born again after we look to the cross. (john 3)

Stop thinking you were made alive while still under the penalty of sin. It did not happen.

Are you not familiar with Ephesians 2:1, And you hath he quickened (made alive) who were dead in trespasses and sins?

If you are referring to John 3:14, this has reference to Numbers 21:9. who were the people pf Israel (God's people) who were told to look upon the fiery serpent that they might live. Those in John 3:14, who are already believers are told to look to Christ and repent that they might not perish=death=separate themselves from their fellowship with God. Fellowship with God is eternal life.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Are you not familiar with Ephesians 2:1, And you hath he quickened (made alive) who were dead in trespasses and sins?

If you are referring to John 3:14, this has reference to Numbers 21:9. who were the people pf Israel (God's people) who were told to look upon the fiery serpent that they might live. Those in John 3:14, who are already believers are told to look to Christ and repent that they might not perish=death=separate themselves from their fellowship with God. Fellowship with God is eternal life.

Yes,

I was dead because of sin.

I am made alive because I was justified (my sin was forgiven)

No the people in John were not yet believers. They had to look to the cross before they were born again.. They had to believe to look.. or they would die..

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes,

I was dead because of sin.

I am made alive because I was justified (my sin was forgiven)

No the people in John were not yet believers. They had to look to the cross before they were born again.. They had to believe to look.. or they would die..

Then how do you interpret 1 Cor 2;14?

 

[Chosen7Saint]

I'm just now seeing the replies to this thread. Thank you all who took the time to share your insights. It's still very confusing when it comes to the when and how of being "born again" but I am trying not to focus too much on that but rather Jesus and his word. However, sometimes I question IF indeed I have the Holy Spirit because when it comes to reading the Word (NKJV or NIV), I just don't understand a lot of what it says unless I take a peek at commentaries and I would rather rely on the Holy Spirit and what He shows me through his word.

So I guess my next question would be: What are some signs or evidence that someone has the Holy Spirit? Biblically
I ask this because I read that you would know them by their fruits (fruits of the spirit) but unbelievers can be kind, patient, loving, etc...

 

[Chosen7Saint]

Hello @Chosen7Saint, mine is a similar story to yours actually. I was baptized as an infant and raised in the church (so to speak). I went to Sunday School through 7th grade, sung in the children's choir, was confirmed, went on some retreats (where I remember being led in a sinner's prayer of sorts), and attended regularly through high school, you know, the whole 9 yards. I enjoyed church, but there was no moment during any of those years when I truly admitted to being a lost sinner and turned my life over to God.

In college (and for the balance of my 20's) I turned away from my upbringing in church and began to live a very fun, fast but progressively more sinful life. Nevertheless, I always believed myself a Christian (why wouldn't I have considering my church background), until the day that I finally became one, that is, 2 months after my 30th birthday. That's when EVERYTHING changed (over 37 years ago now, PTL ).

I had a couple of "dark nights of the soul" along the way, one on my 25th birthday, and the second (far more profound) one, just prior to surrendering my life to the Lord Jesus and finally becoming a believer (over Halloween weekend in 1986).

Like you, I believe that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when God quickens us/causes us to be born again, and justifies/saves us, which I believe all happens pretty much at the same time typically .. except in the case of a blockhead like myself, that is. In my case, I believe that the Father's drawing of us (John 6:44) is Him quickening us/making us alive (spiritually) so that we can see our sins/sinful lives for what they really are, prior to our coming to saving faith/prior to our receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. See Ezekiel 36:26-27, John 3:3, 5; Ephesians 2:1-5 (especially v4-5).

So, I understand the terms "quicken", "regenerate" and "born again" to mean basically the same thing, as God bringing us from spiritual death to spiritual life for the very first time in our lives, thus giving us the ability to finally understand and receive the (spiritual) truth about our spiritual condition from God (which we could not do as "natural" men/women .. 1 Corinthians 2:14 .. see below).

As the Lord Jesus said in John 3:3, you must be born again to even see the Kingdom of God (much less enter into it) so, it seems to me anyway, that being born again or quickened/regenerated must occur prior to coming to saving faith (even if it all happens pretty much at the same time), because into what, exactly, would an unbeliever or "natural" man/women be putting their faith in if God had not already quickened them

That is my 2 cents anyway.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - below you can see the differences between believers (who have been made by God into "spiritual" men/women), and the unsaved (who are "natural" men/women).

​

1 Corinthians 2​

12 We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, ​

13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. ​

14 But a natural man ~does not accept~ the things of the Spirit of God, for they are ~foolishness~ to him; and he ~cannot understand~ them, because they are spiritually appraised. ​

15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. ​

16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. ​

​

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing your story and viewpoints.

 

[p_rehbein]

I have a question regarding receiving the Holy Spirit or regeneration (I believe this is when God's grace falls upon someone so that they are able to believe and receive the Holy Spirit. In scripture, there are implications in multiple passages that it is God who initiates the "rebirth" such as in John 1:12-13 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Holy Spirit is the power that baptizes us with the blood of Jesus, cleansing us of our sins, and making us worthy to be called the children of God,

The "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit is our "Sanctification." The only way to receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is for a saved believer to kneel down and pray for His indwelling WHILE two or more Sanctified Bellievers lay hands on him and pray over him. You can read of this in Acts.

You seem to want to "omit" the precious blood of Jesus in the salvation experience. You do so in error. The "blood" you quoted from John is speaking of the blood of sacrificial animals, AND NOT the precious blood of Jesus.

I fear you are far less understanding of Scripture than you would have people believe.

Hebrews 9:22 ESV / 13 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
1 John 1:7 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
John 3:16 ESV / 11 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Revelation 12:11 ESV / 9 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Revelation 1:5 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

1 Peter 1:18-19 ESV / 8 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
Ephesians 1:7 ESV / 8 helpful votes
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace

Acts 20:28 ESV / 8 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
1 John 1:9 ESV / 7 helpful votes
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Hebrews 9:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Matthew 26:28 ESV / 7 helpful votes
For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Deuteronomy]

... my next question would be: What are some signs or evidence that someone has the Holy Spirit? Biblically
I ask this because I read that you would know them by their fruits (fruits of the spirit) but unbelievers can be kind, patient, loving, etc...

Hello again Chosen7Saint, there are indeed many unbelievers who we would classify as "good people" in comparison to others, but if you are looking to obey this command, 2 Corinthians 13:5, it is perhaps best to focus on yourself alone (at least for the time being), specifically on what you were like (how you lived your life, what you did, said, and even what/how you thought, and what your desires were) prior to coming to saving faith, and then afterwards (IOW, what, if anything, has changed in your life in regard to such things).

Biblically, you might want to compare the two following lists (as a starting point) and ask yourself if your life, since becoming a believer, has begun to look a little bit less like list #1, and a little bit more like list #2, or if things have remained basically the same.

Here are the two lists.

Galatians 5
19 The deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5
22 The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
​

There is MUCH more, of course, but I'll stop here for now.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)

​

 

[Deuteronomy]

It's still very confusing when it comes to the when and how of being "born again" but I am trying not to focus too much on that but rather Jesus and his word ... I take a peek at commentaries and I would rather rely on the Holy Spirit and what He shows me through his word.

As far as the when/how of being born again, as you can see from your many replies, there are many answers (I have found that this is often due to the lack of a common understanding or definition of the terminologies that we use, as well, at times, the differences in the presuppositional beliefs that we each bring to the table, and the teachings that are behind those beliefs). So, I believe that sticking with/focusing on the Bible (as you told us you are doing) is probably your best bet

Further, I don't believe that there is anything wrong with taking a look at what the experts have to say in their commentaries (it is not, after all, an either/or situation, IOW, it is not the commentaries OR the Holy Spirit, but the commentaries AND the Holy Spirit, yes?).

Quite frankly, how is seeing what our theologians have to say in their commentaries different than coming here to see what your online brothers and sisters in Christ have to say, well, except for the years of study/time in the word of God that our theologians have been afforded and blessed with since, unlike most of us, the study of His word is their fulltime occupation.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Spirit can lead you into knowing the truth, whether here on this forum, or when reading through a commentary After all, God didn't give us preachers, teachers and pastors, etc., as ones to be avoided (because they could harm our walk), but as a blessing to us in both our ongoing sanctification/growth in Christlikeness, as well to help us continue to grow in the knowledge and understanding of our Lord and Savior, not only in what He expects of us, but also, in matters such as how deep His love for us (as His adopted children) truly is

God bless you!! (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)

~David

​

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Hi,

I have a question regarding receiving the Holy Spirit or regeneration (I believe this is when God's grace falls upon someone so that they are able to believe and receive the Holy Spirit. In scripture, there are implications in multiple passages that it is God who initiates the "rebirth" such as in John 1:12-13 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now here is where I get confused. In my personal instance, I grew up going to church as a kid, got baptized, and even did communion BUT I was a kid and didn't understand much. I knew there was a higher power (GOD) and Jesus but that was about it. In my teen/early adult life, I lived life as normal (sinning and not thinking twice about it) and only called out to GOD when I was in trouble or needed something.

Fast forward to the middle of this year and I get hit with guilt like I've never experienced before.....out of nowhere. How can this be? You need to have the Holy Spirit to even be convicted of sin right? How did I get the Holy Spirit if I hadn't took the Christian life seriously my entire life? I have said the sinners prayer before, read a few pamphlets and said I accepted Jesus at one point in my early adult life but still continued on in sin.

I'm puzzled because I thought you had to read the gospels, confess your sins and put your trust in Jesus. My experience wasn't really like this. It was after the conviction (of a particular sin which led to coming clean with other sins) that I repented, asked for forgiveness and decided to learn more about Jesus so that I can put my trust in him and be genuine in my faith. Any thoughts?

Hi Chosen7saint and welcome to the forums.

You have a great question. Many years ago, someone cared enough to approach me with the answer to that question. It went something like this.

 

[Chosen7Saint]

The Holy Spirit is the power that baptizes us with the blood of Jesus, cleansing us of our sins, and making us worthy to be called the children of God,

The "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit is our "Sanctification." The only way to receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is for a saved believer to kneel down and pray for His indwelling WHILE two or more Sanctified Bellievers lay hands on him and pray over him. You can read of this in Acts.

You seem to want to "omit" the precious blood of Jesus in the salvation experience. You do so in error. The "blood" you quoted from John is speaking of the blood of sacrificial animals, AND NOT the precious blood of Jesus.

I fear you are far less understanding of Scripture than you would have people believe.

Hebrews 9:22 ESV / 13 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
1 John 1:7 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
John 3:16 ESV / 11 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Revelation 12:11 ESV / 9 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Revelation 1:5 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

1 Peter 1:18-19 ESV / 8 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish

As far as the when/how of being born again, as you can see from your many replies, there are many answers (I have found that this is often due to the lack of a common understanding or definition of the terminologies that we use, as well, at times, the differences in the presuppositional beliefs that we each bring to the table, and the teachings that are behind those beliefs). So, I believe that sticking with/focusing on the Bible (as you told us you are doing) is probably your best bet

Further, I don't believe that there is anything wrong with taking a look at what the experts have to say in their commentaries (it is not, after all, an either/or situation, IOW, it is not the commentaries OR the Holy Spirit, but the commentaries AND the Holy Spirit, yes?).

Quite frankly, how is seeing what our theologians have to say in their commentaries different than coming here to see what your online brothers and sisters in Christ have to say, well, except for the years of study/time in the word of God that our theologians have been afforded and blessed with since, unlike most of us, the study of His word is their fulltime occupation.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Spirit can lead you into knowing the truth, whether here on this forum, or when reading through a commentary After all, God didn't give us preachers, teachers and pastors, etc., as ones to be avoided (because they could harm our walk), but as a blessing to us in both our ongoing sanctification/growth in Christlikeness, as well to help us continue to grow in the knowledge and understanding of our Lord and Savior, not only in what He expects of us, but also, in matters such as how deep His love for us (as His adopted children) truly is

God bless you!! (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)

~David

View attachment 259209​

Great point. Iron sharpens iron

 

[Deuteronomy]

Whoops, the final Scripture reference in my last post (post #35) was supposed to be BOTH 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 AND Philippians 1:6. The good news (for me ) is that if you click on the reference, and then scroll down when you get there, Philippians 1:6 is there

~1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Philippians 1:6 NASB1995 - Now may the God of peace Himself - Bible Gateway

We have a 5-minute editing window here at CChat.com, and I didn't notice the problem before that time was up. Sorry about that!

--David

 

[Chosen7Saint]

The Holy Spirit is the power that baptizes us with the blood of Jesus, cleansing us of our sins, and making us worthy to be called the children of God,

The "indwelling presence" of the Holy Spirit is our "Sanctification." The only way to receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is for a saved believer to kneel down and pray for His indwelling WHILE two or more Sanctified Bellievers lay hands on him and pray over him. You can read of this in Acts.

You seem to want to "omit" the precious blood of Jesus in the salvation experience. You do so in error. The "blood" you quoted from John is speaking of the blood of sacrificial animals, AND NOT the precious blood of Jesus.

I fear you are far less understanding of Scripture than you would have people believe.

Of course I don't have a full grasp of scripture....I'm new to the Word of God. I'm navigating the scriptures and there's an abundance of wisdom and teachings in there that will take some time to understand.

What I really want to respond to is your comment about having 2 sanctified believers pray over someone to receive the indwelling holy spirit like that is the only was to receive it. I thought to be saved, all we had to do was believe in Jesus (and of course this means acknowledging he shed blood and died to pay for our sins and rose, I don't omit the blood AT ALL). Once you believe (genuinely), you receive the Holy Spirit which makes you a child of God. There wasn't 2 believers praying over the thief on the cross and he was saved. And yes, I know Jesus hadn't sent the Holy Spirit at that point but still his faith in Jesus was enough.

Maybe I'm looking at your comment the wrong way and if I am, I apologize but that just doesn't make sense.

 

[Chosen7Saint]

Whoops, the final Scripture reference in my last post (post #35) was supposed to be BOTH 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 AND Philippians 1:6. The good news (for me ) is that if you click on the reference, and then scroll down when you get there, Philippians 1:6 is there

~1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Philippians 1:6 NASB1995 - Now may the God of peace Himself - Bible Gateway

We have a 5-minute editing window here at CChat.com, and I didn't notice the problem before that time was up. Sorry about that!

--David

No problem. I just made an editing mistake by quoting you another poster in the same reply...oops. But I'll review the scriptures.

Thanks