What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#423
Jul 3, 2015
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PaulThomson said:
My mistake. I should have said, you agreed with BillyBob that "Faith is a gift.... "
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Did I? You have a nasty habit of falsely accusing. What I DID was
give a text when you asked. My response started with Perhaps.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#424
Oct 29, 2023
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#424
Magenta said:
Did I? You have a nasty habit of falsely accusing. What I DID was
give a text when you asked. My response started with Perhaps.
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Why did you suggest a certain text might support BillyBob's assertion, if you don't think it supports his assertion? Especially when the verse you suggested does not even mention "faith". So you actually disagree with the assertion that "Faith is a gift"?
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#425
Jul 13, 2021
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#425
Adstar said:
God cannot save an unrepentant sinner who is against the revealed will of God.
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Those are the only kind of people whom God saves because until and unless salvation is first given, we are, and remain, unrepentant sinners. The heart, spirit and mind of someone can only be changed from that state by becoming saved by God, through which, one's repentance is manifested, but its cause is salvation. This is because God is an exceedingly merciful and gracious God through Jesus Christ, to those whom He had chosen for such, even though up until then, they be unrepentant sinners.

[2Ti 1:9 KJV] 9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

[1Ti 1:15 KJV] 15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

[2Ti 1:7 KJV] 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
 
notmyown

notmyown

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#426
May 26, 2016
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rogerg said:
Those are the only kind of people whom God saves because until and unless salvation is first given, we are, and remain, unrepentant sinners.
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yes, it all begins with a heart transplant.

I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ez 36:25-27)

Who is doing all those wonderful things? :)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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notmyown said:
yes, it all begins with a heart transplant.

I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ez 36:25-27)

Who is doing all those wonderful things? :)
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The heart fairy?
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#430
Jul 8, 2018
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Cameron143 said:
Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.
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The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not, and, indeed, cannot have a desire to know about anything that is of a spiritual nature, until he has been born again, with the indwelling of then Holy Spirit. Eph 2:1-5.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#431
ForestGreenCook said:
The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not, and, indeed, cannot have a desire to know about anything that is of a spiritual nature, until he has been born again, with the indwelling of then Holy Spirit. Eph 2:1-5.
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This isn't about man's desire, but God's.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#432
Sep 23, 2014
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#432
If faith is the evidence of things not seen, and you can't see faith, then how do you know whether faith or salvation came first?
If God says, "I will... do such and such" and He presents it in the form of a promise (i.e. future form), and all there is to do is to believe it...even if you can't 'do' it yourself... :unsure:
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#433
Jul 8, 2018
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#433
MsMediator said:
I think there are degrees of desire, and that the greater the desire the more one is willing to sacrifice or "work" for it. With your particular example, it also depends on how much you are able to afford. If you cannot incur all expenses and can only afford to treat a few family members, there is not much else you can do and I don't think this inability to afford all expenses weighs against your desire. However, if you can afford all expenses but only want to treat a few members, I think your desire for a family vacation where everyone attends is not as great.

With respect to God's desire that all people are saved, one observation made in the Bible is that Jesus does not chase down nonbelievers or spends all of his energy to convert any particular person. He tries to make a person believe once of twice, and then moves to another person, another town, etc. One example is the story of the rich man, if I remember correctly, Jesus saw the rich man walk away since the rich man did not want to give away his possessions. Even when Jesus teaches others, including Nicodemus, He moves on without securing their faith.

So, while I believe God desires that all people are saved, He still requires faith and won't force us to believe. A lot of atheists argue if God wants them to believe, why isn't God easily visible. However, Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen, so this makes me believe that God requires this sort of faith. I am not sure if God pursues us continually if we don't pursue him, but He is always available when we decide to return. The way God desires is different from how humans desire, as we humans do not require faith and the issues we deal with eachother are different from salvation which for Christians requires faith.
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If God wants all of mankind to be eternally delivered to heaven, then all mankind will be delivered to heaven (Dan 4:35).

God has promised, and secured, an eternal inheritance for those, of mankind, that his Father gave to him, which did not include all of mankind (John 6:37-40) (John 10:26-29) (Rom 8:28-30).
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#434
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#434
Cameron143 said:
This isn't about man's desire, but God's.
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You contend that the scriptures conclude that God's desire is that all mankind will be saved eternally. I contend that the scriptures teach that God wants only those of mankind that he chose, elected, and gave to Jesus to be saved eternally (John 6:37-40) (Rom 9:8-16) (John 10:26-29)

If it were God's will that all mankind were to be saved eternally, then he would eternally save all mankind (Dan 4:35).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#435
ForestGreenCook said:
You contend that the scriptures conclude that God's desire is that all mankind will be saved eternally. I contend that the scriptures teach that God wants only those of mankind that he chose, elected, and gave to Jesus to be saved eternally (John 6:37-40) (Rom 9:8-16) (John 10:26-29)

If it were God's will that all mankind were to be saved eternally, then he would eternally save all mankind (Dan 4:35).
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I just asked what it means. The Bible already states that God has the desire.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#436
Mem said:
If faith is the evidence of things not seen, and you can't see faith, then how do you know whether faith or salvation came first?
If God says, "I will... do such and such" and He presents it in the form of a promise (i.e. future form), and all there is to do is to believe it...even if you can't 'do' it yourself... :unsure:
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Also, if it is of a spiritual nature, then only those who have been born of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can believe.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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#437
Jul 8, 2018
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#437
Cameron143 said:
I just asked what it means. The Bible already states that God has the desire.
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It would help me to understand your position better if you would give me a scripture reference with your statement that he desires all mankind to be saved eternally.
 
Mem

Mem

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#438
Sep 23, 2014
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#438
ForestGreenCook said:
Also, if it is of a spiritual nature, then only those who have been born of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can believe.
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mankind's inherent design composition includes a spiritual aspect, made in the image of God. We would not be able to decipher words, whether spoken and especially not the written had we not been equipped with this special attribute. The higher intelligent form of animals may be able to recognize particular words by rote, but none are capable of learning to actually read nor write them.

And telling a child what to think rather than showing them the way to any particular thinking is the best way, imho, to discourage the nurturing of this image in him or her.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#439
ForestGreenCook said:
It would help me to understand your position better if you would give me a scripture reference with your statement that he desires all mankind to be saved eternally.
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I haven't taken a position. I'm finding out what other people think.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#440
Jul 3, 2015
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#440
notmyown said:
yes, it all begins with a heart transplant.

I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ez 36:25-27)

Who is doing all those wonderful things? :)
Click to expand...

Ezekiel 36:25-26
:)
 
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