The Security Of The Believer

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here, you make reference to James 1:21.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.- James 1:21-22 (KJV)

We are saved solely by the engrafted Word of God, which is Jesus Christ. We cannot be saved by any other means. —selah

Amen

He said those who are not doers are deceived.. They have no faith.. hence have no salvation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1. Reformed Perspective on Eternal Security:
   • In Calvinism, the doctrine of eternal security, often referred to as the perseverance of the saints, is a key element. It asserts that those who are truly regenerated and have genuine faith in Christ will be preserved by God's grace and will ultimately persevere until the end. The sealing of the Holy Spirit is seen as a guarantee of this perseverance.
2. Early Church Views on Eternal Security:
   • While it's true that some elements of the doctrine of eternal security can be traced in the writings of certain early Christians, the formal articulation and systematic development of the doctrine, as seen in Reformed theology, became more prominent in the post-Reformation period. Augustine, an influential figure in early Christianity, did contribute to the development of certain theological concepts related to grace and predestination, but the full-fledged Calvinistic understanding of eternal security took shape later.
3. Authority of Scripture:
   • Calvinism, like many Protestant traditions, emphasizes the authority of Scripture as the ultimate guide for doctrine and practice. The Reformers, including John Calvin, sought to return to the primacy of biblical teachings and relied on the Scriptures as the primary source of theological understanding. The doctrine of eternal security, as formulated in Reformed theology, is derived from the interpretation of various biblical passages.
4. Historical Development of Doctrines:
   • The historical context is crucial in understanding the development of theological doctrines. Different theological concepts may have roots in earlier periods, but the formalization and systematic articulation often occur in response to specific theological controversies or developments.

In summary, within the context of Calvinism, the doctrine of eternal security is based on the interpretation of biblical passages, with an emphasis on God's sovereign grace, the sealing of the Holy Spirit, and the assurance of salvation for those who are genuinely saved. While elements of this doctrine may be found in the writings of some early Christians, the detailed formulation and emphasis on these concepts within Reformed theology distinguish it as a distinct theological perspective.

I think the best thing to do is to not try to distinguish between theologies. and just look to the word.

Calvinism has some major flaws in its thinking. Not all who believe in eternal security are calvinist.

 

[mailmandan]

Here, you make reference to James 1:21.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.- James 1:21-22 (KJV)

We are saved solely by the engrafted Word of God, which is Jesus Christ. We cannot be saved by any other means. —selah

John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If we are saved solely by a belief: Then you need to stop your contradictory belief and be consistent and say that a person can live out their faith without lifting a finger for God.

This comment simply shows that you still do not understand salvation (justification) by grace through faith. But Ephesians 2:8-10 makes things quite clear:

1. GOD'S GRACE IS THE BASIS OF SALVATION
For by grace are ye saved

2. FAITH IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK OF REDEMPTION IS NECESSRY
through faith

3. WE CANNOT DO ANY WORK FOR OUR SALVATION
and that not of yourselves

4. SALVATION IS GOD'S GIFT TO THE ONE WHO BELIEVES
it is the gift of God:

5. ALL HUMAN WORKS ARE EXCLUDED
Not of works lest any man should boast.

6. GOD MAKES THE BELIEVER A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST
For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus

7. THE SAVED PERSON WILL DO GOOD WORKS (BUT NOT FOR SALVATION)
unto good works

8. THAT IS GOD'S PLAN FOR THE ONES WHO ARE SAVED
which God hath before ordained

9. GOOD WORKS ARE A PART OF SANCTIFICATION
that we should walk in them.

 

[Tulipbee]

I think the best thing to do is to not try to distinguish between theologies. and just look to the word.

Calvinism has some major flaws in its thinking. Not all who believe in eternal security are calvinist.

I appreciate your call to focus on the Word, and I agree that seeking biblical truth is paramount. However, it's essential to recognize that theological perspectives, including Calvinism, arise from attempts to interpret and understand the Scriptures. Let me address your point from a Calvinistic perspective:

1. Interpretation of Scripture:
   • Calvinists, too, strive to derive their beliefs directly from the Bible. The doctrine of eternal security, as understood in Calvinism, is a product of interpreting various biblical passages that speak to the perseverance of the saints and the security of believers in Christ.
2. Understanding Doctrinal Differences:
   • While not everyone who believes in eternal security is a Calvinist, Calvinism provides a specific framework for understanding this doctrine. Calvinists emphasize the sovereignty of God in salvation and the perseverance of the saints as a result of God's grace. Other theological traditions may approach eternal security differently.
3. Unity in Christ:
   • Despite doctrinal differences, believers across various theological spectrums can find unity in Christ. While Calvinists may hold distinct views on eternal security, the common ground is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
4. Biblical Exploration:
   • Engaging in dialogue and exploring different theological perspectives can deepen our understanding of the Word. Calvinists, while holding to their distinctive beliefs, acknowledge the richness and complexity of God's Word.

In summary, while emphasizing the importance of Scripture, Calvinists approach the interpretation of biblical passages within the context of their theological framework. Theological distinctions can coexist with a shared commitment to the foundational truths found in the Word.
In Christ

 

[Nehemiah6]

Not all who believe in eternal security are calvinist.

Correct. Early Baptists (or any Bible-believing Christians) believed in eternal security before the Reformation. And Five Point Calvinism does have some serious flaws. However, much that is in the Westminster Confession of Faith (Reformed doctrine) is believed by all Christians.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I appreciate your call to focus on the Word, and I agree that seeking biblical truth is paramount. However, it's essential to recognize that theological perspectives, including Calvinism, arise from attempts to interpret and understand the Scriptures. Let me address your point from a Calvinistic perspective:

1. Interpretation of Scripture:
   • Calvinists, too, strive to derive their beliefs directly from the Bible. The doctrine of eternal security, as understood in Calvinism, is a product of interpreting various biblical passages that speak to the perseverance of the saints and the security of believers in Christ.
2. Understanding Doctrinal Differences:
   • While not everyone who believes in eternal security is a Calvinist, Calvinism provides a specific framework for understanding this doctrine. Calvinists emphasize the sovereignty of God in salvation and the perseverance of the saints as a result of God's grace. Other theological traditions may approach eternal security differently.
3. Unity in Christ:
   • Despite doctrinal differences, believers across various theological spectrums can find unity in Christ. While Calvinists may hold distinct views on eternal security, the common ground is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
4. Biblical Exploration:
   • Engaging in dialogue and exploring different theological perspectives can deepen our understanding of the Word. Calvinists, while holding to their distinctive beliefs, acknowledge the richness and complexity of God's Word.

In summary, while emphasizing the importance of Scripture, Calvinists approach the interpretation of biblical passages within the context of their theological framework. Theological distinctions can coexist with a shared commitment to the foundational truths found in the Word.
In Christ

Calvinists have people born again while still in sin.

It Has God sending people to hell without giving them the chance to believe.. then saying they deserve it.

Sorry. I abhor fatalistic beliefs and double predestination

Even the term perseverance of the saints.. Saints do not persevere.. They are held by God.. so that term alone is worrisome..

The issue is that we get to many calvinist vs arminian argument going on. and no one knows what the other really believed because most of the people are not calvinist or arminian..

 

[Tulipbee]

Calvinists have people born again while still in sin.

It Has God sending people to hell without giving them the chance to believe.. then saying they deserve it.

Sorry. I abhor fatalistic beliefs and double predestination

Even the term perseverance of the saints.. Saints do not persevere.. They are held by God.. so that term alone is worrisome..

The issue is that we get to many calvinist vs arminian argument going on. and no one knows what the other really believed because most of the people are not calvinist or arminian..

I appreciate your engagement and your passion for exploring theological truths. Let me address some of the points you've raised from a Calvinistic perspective:

1. Born Again in Sin: Calvinists do indeed believe in the doctrine of total depravity, which emphasizes the fallen nature of humanity. The new birth, or being born again, is seen as a transformative work of God's grace, regenerating individuals who are spiritually dead. It's not a result of human merit but a sovereign act of God.
2. God's Sovereignty and Hell: The concept of God's sovereignty in Calvinism extends to all aspects of salvation, including the divine election of some for salvation and, by implication, the passing over of others. While this may be challenging, Calvinists argue that it underscores the absolute sovereignty of God. It's crucial to explore these doctrines with a commitment to understanding the full counsel of Scripture.
3. Perseverance of the Saints: You rightly point out that the term "perseverance of the saints" can be nuanced. Calvinists often mean that believers, kept by the power of God, will persevere in faith. The emphasis is on God's faithfulness rather than human achievement. It's an acknowledgment that true believers will endure to the end because of God's preserving grace.
4. Calvinist vs. Arminian Debates: The debates between Calvinists and Arminians have historical roots, and both perspectives have sincere, committed believers. While there are differences, there's also shared ground in the essential tenets of Christianity. Engaging in respectful dialogue can foster understanding and unity among believers.

In conclusion, Calvinists hold these doctrines with a deep reverence for God's sovereignty, recognizing that some aspects might be challenging or even mysterious. The intention is to magnify God's grace and emphasize the centrality of Christ in salvation.
In Christ's service

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I appreciate your engagement and your passion for exploring theological truths. Let me address some of the points you've raised from a Calvinistic perspective:

1. Born Again in Sin: Calvinists do indeed believe in the doctrine of total depravity, which emphasizes the fallen nature of humanity. The new birth, or being born again, is seen as a transformative work of God's grace, regenerating individuals who are spiritually dead. It's not a result of human merit but a sovereign act of God.
2. God's Sovereignty and Hell: The concept of God's sovereignty in Calvinism extends to all aspects of salvation, including the divine election of some for salvation and, by implication, the passing over of others. While this may be challenging, Calvinists argue that it underscores the absolute sovereignty of God. It's crucial to explore these doctrines with a commitment to understanding the full counsel of Scripture.
3. Perseverance of the Saints: You rightly point out that the term "perseverance of the saints" can be nuanced. Calvinists often mean that believers, kept by the power of God, will persevere in faith. The emphasis is on God's faithfulness rather than human achievement. It's an acknowledgment that true believers will endure to the end because of God's preserving grace.
4. Calvinist vs. Arminian Debates: The debates between Calvinists and Arminians have historical roots, and both perspectives have sincere, committed believers. While there are differences, there's also shared ground in the essential tenets of Christianity. Engaging in respectful dialogue can foster understanding and unity among believers.

In conclusion, Calvinists hold these doctrines with a deep reverence for God's sovereignty, recognizing that some aspects might be challenging or even mysterious. The intention is to magnify God's grace and emphasize the centrality of Christ in salvation.
In Christ's service

How is one born again? (john 3)

 

[Tulipbee]

How is one born again? (john 3)

In the Calvinistic view, the concept of being "born again" is closely tied to the doctrine of regeneration, which is a sovereign act of God. According to Calvinism:

1. Total Depravity: Calvinism holds the belief in the total depravity of humanity, meaning that every aspect of human nature is affected by sin, and individuals are incapable of saving themselves.
2. Unconditional Election: God, in His sovereignty, chooses and elects individuals for salvation based on His own will, not on any merit or action on the part of the individual. This election is unconditional and not dependent on human choice.
3. Irresistible Grace: The grace of God that brings about salvation is irresistible. When God chooses to regenerate a person, that individual will experience the effectual call of God's grace and will be born again.
4. Limited Atonement: In the Calvinistic perspective, the atonement is considered limited to the elect. Christ's sacrifice on the cross is viewed as specifically effective for those whom God has chosen for salvation.
5. Perseverance of the Saints: Those who are genuinely born again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith and obedience until the end. God's grace ensures the perseverance of the saints.

In summary, being born again in Calvinism is a divine and sovereign act of God, where individuals are chosen by God, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and granted the gift of faith that leads to their salvation. The emphasis is on God's initiative and the irresistible nature of His grace in the process of regeneration.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In the Calvinistic view, the concept of being "born again" is closely tied to the doctrine of regeneration, which is a sovereign act of God. According to Calvinism:

1. Total Depravity: Calvinism holds the belief in the total depravity of humanity, meaning that every aspect of human nature is affected by sin, and individuals are incapable of saving themselves.
2. Unconditional Election: God, in His sovereignty, chooses and elects individuals for salvation based on His own will, not on any merit or action on the part of the individual. This election is unconditional and not dependent on human choice.
3. Irresistible Grace: The grace of God that brings about salvation is irresistible. When God chooses to regenerate a person, that individual will experience the effectual call of God's grace and will be born again.
4. Limited Atonement: In the Calvinistic perspective, the atonement is considered limited to the elect. Christ's sacrifice on the cross is viewed as specifically effective for those whom God has chosen for salvation.
5. Perseverance of the Saints: Those who are genuinely born again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith and obedience until the end. God's grace ensures the perseverance of the saints.

In summary, being born again in Calvinism is a divine and sovereign act of God, where individuals are chosen by God, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and granted the gift of faith that leads to their salvation. The emphasis is on God's initiative and the irresistible nature of His grace in the process of regeneration.

I did not ask you what calvinism thought.

I asked you to look at john 3 and tell me what Jesus said about being born again

 

[Tulipbee]

I did not ask you what calvinism thought.

I asked you to look at john 3 and tell me what Jesus said about being born again

Certainly! John 3:3-7 (New International Version) records a conversation between Jesus and a man named Nicodemus. In this passage, Jesus discusses the concept of being "born again." Here is the passage:
"Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.'
'How can someone be born when they are old?' Nicodemus asked. 'Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!'
Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'"
In this passage, Jesus is emphasizing the need for a spiritual rebirth, which comes through the work of the Holy Spirit. Being "born again" is a metaphorical expression for experiencing a spiritual transformation and entering into a new relationship with God. It involves a renewal of the inner self through the work of the Holy Spirit, leading to a life lived in accordance with God's will.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Certainly! John 3:3-7 (New International Version) records a conversation between Jesus and a man named Nicodemus. In this passage, Jesus discusses the concept of being "born again." Here is the passage:
"Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.'
'How can someone be born when they are old?' Nicodemus asked. 'Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!'
Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'"
In this passage, Jesus is emphasizing the need for a spiritual rebirth, which comes through the work of the Holy Spirit. Being "born again" is a metaphorical expression for experiencing a spiritual transformation and entering into a new relationship with God. It involves a renewal of the inner self through the work of the Holy Spirit, leading to a life lived in accordance with God's will.

Ok continue

What you have shown is the what..

What is the how??

John 3: 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answer to him is what I am looking for. it is the HOW we are born again

Can you show us what Jesus said?

And by the way, it is not metaphorical. We are dead in tresspasses and sins. We must be made alive in christ.

that is what born of the spirit or born again means.

When Jesus says we must be born again, He is literally saying we must be born a second time, or reborn..

It is a literal act.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Here, you make reference to James 1:21.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.- James 1:21-22 (KJV)

We are saved solely by the engrafted Word of God, which is Jesus Christ. We cannot be saved by any other means. —selah

Please read the context of James, and ask yourself,

“Does it sound like James is talking about how to ‘get saved’ ​

or is he talking about continued salvation in the Sanctification Process”? ​

What I am challenging you to do is not easy. Do not put your presuppositions into the text of what you want to be true. I want you to read again James 1 and James 2 very slowly with an open mind and ask yourself these questions. If you go back and reread James 1 and James 2 in prayer with asking God to illuminate your understanding by the Spirit, it will hopefully shed light on what the Scriptures are saying. Just do that and then get back to me.

In other words, there is a reason why Luther said James is an epistle of straw. Simply put, at that time he said that, he did not like what the book of James said. It went against everything he believed involving his Reformation.

 

[Tulipbee]

Ok continue

What you have shown is the what..

What is the how??

John 3: 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answer to him is what I am looking for. it is the HOW we are born again

Can you show us what Jesus said?

And by the way, it is not metaphorical. We are dead in tresspasses and sins. We must be made alive in christ.

that is what born of the spirit or born again means.

When Jesus says we must be born again, He is literally saying we must be born a second time, or reborn..

It is a literal act.

Absolutely, let's delve into the continuation of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. When Nicodemus inquired about the "how" of being born again, Jesus responded in John 3:5-8 (New International Version):
"Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'"
From a Calvinistic perspective, this passage is often interpreted to emphasize the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit in the regeneration of the believer. The phrase "born of water and the Spirit" is understood to signify a spiritual rebirth that involves cleansing (symbolized by water) and the transformative work of the Spirit.
While the term "born again" may be taken literally in the sense of a genuine, life-altering transformation, the emphasis is on the spiritual nature of this rebirth, which is initiated and accomplished by the work of the Holy Spirit.
If you have further questions or if there are specific aspects you'd like to explore within the context of Calvinistic theology, feel free to share, and I'm here to assist in navigating these theological discussions.
Grace and peace

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Absolutely, let's delve into the continuation of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. When Nicodemus inquired about the "how" of being born again, Jesus responded in John 3:5-8 (New International Version):
"Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.'"
From a Calvinistic perspective, this passage is often interpreted to emphasize the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit in the regeneration of the believer. The phrase "born of water and the Spirit" is understood to signify a spiritual rebirth that involves cleansing (symbolized by water) and the transformative work of the Spirit.
While the term "born again" may be taken literally in the sense of a genuine, life-altering transformation, the emphasis is on the spiritual nature of this rebirth, which is initiated and accomplished by the work of the Holy Spirit.
If you have further questions or if there are specific aspects you'd like to explore within the context of Calvinistic theology, feel free to share, and I'm here to assist in navigating these theological discussions.
Grace and peace

Thank you for conversing. However. I ask. why do you stop there Jesus did nto stop there..

In fact. Jesus said this is why he came, and HOW we are born again did he not?


John 3: 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[selahsays]

Please read the context of James, and ask yourself,

“Does it sound like James is talking about how to ‘get saved’ ​

or is he talking about continued salvation in the Sanctification Process”? ​

What I am challenging you to do is not easy. Do not put your presuppositions into the text of what you want to be true. I want you to read again James 1 and James 2 very slowly with an open mind and ask yourself these questions. If you go back and reread James 1 and James 2 in prayer with asking God to illuminate your understanding by the Spirit, it will hopefully shed light on what the Scriptures are saying. Just do that and then get back to me.

In other words, there is a reason why Luther said James is an epistle of straw. Simply put, at that time he said that, he did not like what the book of James said. It went against everything he believed involving his Reformation.

I recently completed reading James. Why do you assert that works are needful for Salvation if you do indeed comprehend this book? Provide scriptural proof, please. Did Jesus not say, “It is finished?” Is He not your Redeemer?

 

[uncle_mike]

Hi brother. Look at vs 15. Before He called them friends, He called them servants. Were they unsaved as servants?


When we are saved, we are servants of God. We need instruction. We need to get to know His will for us. We need to grow in His Grace and knowledge. When we Are prepared and know His will, we are then ready for the service He has prepared for us and we are called friends. Many, stay as babies in Christ and never learn how to communicate with Him. His intended relationship with us is communication and support. Sadly, many believers think it is a dictatorship. And many stay there their whole lives.

Hence, the law followers. Probably did come to faith in Christ at some time, but never advanced in His intended relationship for them.

Here are some key Verses to John 15:
10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

12 My commandment is this, that you love one another as I have loved you.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

So abiding in Christ is attached to the condition of "if ye do whatsoever I command you."

 

[uncle_mike]

May I ask you a question?

Why are you stuck on one verse?

I am not. I am stuck on a series of Verses that all say the same thing.

10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

12 My commandment is this, that you love one another as I have loved you.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

 

[uncle_mike]

But your saying we must obey or we will not get to heaven.

That is works.

question. How good is good enough?

I am not saying anything. Jesus is talking in these Verses, not me.