Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?
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Yeah, the Holy Spirit not only teaches us, but enables us to obey God.
I used to struggle in this but God taught me that it is only through the Holy Spirit that one can obey God and in a more consistent way. And honestly, I'm so glad He helped me understand that because it's been a lot easier to live for God the way He wants me to through the Holy Spirit.
I really appreciate what Jesus did for us by dying on the cross even more, because doing so has given us the Holy Spirit - not only as a seal to show we belong to God - but to enable us to become more and more Christlike. We no longer have to struggle to obey God in our own strength. We have the Holy Spirit!
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I know Him and believe only Him. And He said...
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me.
and
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
and
24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father.
Oh, look "the works that no one else did," hmmm, I wonder what that is? Oh nvm, I know because....
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me.
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me.
and
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
and
24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father.
Oh, look "the works that no one else did," hmmm, I wonder what that is? Oh nvm, I know because....
26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me.
~
Jehovah's Witnesses are schooled to believe the Spirit is alongside them
instead of inside them as that privilege is reserved for the Watchtower
Society's elite 144,000 anointed JWs.
The non-anointed class-- a.k.a. the great crowd, a.k.a. the hewers of wood
and haulers of water --are in a very serious condition. Here's why:
● Rom 8:9 . .You are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if
God's spirit truly dwells in you.
Seeing as how God's spirit does not truly dwell "in" John Que and Jane Doe
JWs, then they are, by default, in harmony with the flesh; which only makes
things worse.
● Rom 8:5-8 . . For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds
on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of
the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the
spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity
with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it
be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.
JWs in accord with the flesh are too ironic for words. They displease God,
and He displeases them; yet they go door-to-door sincerely believing
themselves Jehovah's friends and allies.
_
Jehovah's Witnesses are schooled to believe the Spirit is alongside them
instead of inside them as that privilege is reserved for the Watchtower
Society's elite 144,000 anointed JWs.
The non-anointed class-- a.k.a. the great crowd, a.k.a. the hewers of wood
and haulers of water --are in a very serious condition. Here's why:
● Rom 8:9 . .You are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if
God's spirit truly dwells in you.
Seeing as how God's spirit does not truly dwell "in" John Que and Jane Doe
JWs, then they are, by default, in harmony with the flesh; which only makes
things worse.
● Rom 8:5-8 . . For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds
on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of
the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the
spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity
with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it
be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.
JWs in accord with the flesh are too ironic for words. They displease God,
and He displeases them; yet they go door-to-door sincerely believing
themselves Jehovah's friends and allies.
_
~
Back in the early 1970s when I was just starting out as a born-again
Christian, it seemed logical to my inexperienced mind that if the Spirit is a
living being, then I should somehow be able to detect its presence were it
actually inside my body.
That was really getting to me as I was aware that folks who lack the Spirit of
Christ are none of his. (Rom 8:9) So, in an act of desperation, I made an
appointment to see one of the local radio ministers in my area to talk about
it.
He explained-- in so many words --that the Spirit isn't a tangible being. It's a
supernatural being whose texture is about as physical as the vacuum of
outer space, viz: it is impossible to detect the Spirit's presence by means of
one's natural senses of touch, taste, hearing, sight, and/or smell.
Neither will scientific instruments like Oscilloscopes, CAT scans, PT scans,
MRI, trick photography, and/or X-rays detect the Spirit's presence. Were the
Spirit to be put within a particle collider like the Large Hadron, nothing would
bump into it.
Plus: the Spirit's work within Christ's followers is so subtle that every
thought that comes into their minds seems like all their own instead of
something suggested by the Spirit.
So then; us meat and potatoes beings are at a disadvantage when it comes
to detecting supernatural beings of any kind: both the good the bad. (cf. Eph
2:1-2 & 2Tim 2:24-26)
_
Back in the early 1970s when I was just starting out as a born-again
Christian, it seemed logical to my inexperienced mind that if the Spirit is a
living being, then I should somehow be able to detect its presence were it
actually inside my body.
That was really getting to me as I was aware that folks who lack the Spirit of
Christ are none of his. (Rom 8:9) So, in an act of desperation, I made an
appointment to see one of the local radio ministers in my area to talk about
it.
He explained-- in so many words --that the Spirit isn't a tangible being. It's a
supernatural being whose texture is about as physical as the vacuum of
outer space, viz: it is impossible to detect the Spirit's presence by means of
one's natural senses of touch, taste, hearing, sight, and/or smell.
Neither will scientific instruments like Oscilloscopes, CAT scans, PT scans,
MRI, trick photography, and/or X-rays detect the Spirit's presence. Were the
Spirit to be put within a particle collider like the Large Hadron, nothing would
bump into it.
Plus: the Spirit's work within Christ's followers is so subtle that every
thought that comes into their minds seems like all their own instead of
something suggested by the Spirit.
So then; us meat and potatoes beings are at a disadvantage when it comes
to detecting supernatural beings of any kind: both the good the bad. (cf. Eph
2:1-2 & 2Tim 2:24-26)
_
Listen to John
The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
We are not against the law, we are against any who say that salvation is obtained by keeping the law, or that the salvation which comes by grace through faith as a free gift is at all dependent upon us keeping the law of Moses.
The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
We are not against the law, we are against any who say that salvation is obtained by keeping the law, or that the salvation which comes by grace through faith as a free gift is at all dependent upon us keeping the law of Moses.
Can you state what this New Testament Law is, where do the apostles list these laws? who has been appointed judge in the church? for where you have laws there must be judges.
We are commanded to believe and we are commanded to love and for both these qualities we need the Holy Spirit enabling.
Get you the Holy Ghost.
We are commanded to believe and we are commanded to love and for both these qualities we need the Holy Spirit enabling.
Get you the Holy Ghost.
I do not agree with that radio preacher. I do agree He pours His thoughts upon us.
The Holy Spirit is most certainly tangible, not to the flesh but to the spirit. In joy, in peace, in the love of God in our hearts. The ealy Puritans called it "experimental religion" experimental meaning to be experienced or felt.
The Holy Spirit is most certainly tangible, not to the flesh but to the spirit. In joy, in peace, in the love of God in our hearts. The ealy Puritans called it "experimental religion" experimental meaning to be experienced or felt.
Did you mean "experiential religion", perhaps then?
I gathered that the radio preacher grazed the topic of knowing the Holy Spirit or, although the preacher presents it in the reverse order, mistaking their own thoughts for His. The radio preacher suggests that we are more liable to mistake His voice for our own, and that I'm not so sure of. Holy Spirit does have a distinct personality, and this is how I do recognize Him.
I gathered that the radio preacher grazed the topic of knowing the Holy Spirit or, although the preacher presents it in the reverse order, mistaking their own thoughts for His. The radio preacher suggests that we are more liable to mistake His voice for our own, and that I'm not so sure of. Holy Spirit does have a distinct personality, and this is how I do recognize Him.
~
Mother Teresa was encouraged to go to India on the strength of some
interior imaginative locutions she claims to have received from Christ himself
beginning in Sept of 1946 and ending some time in 1947.
** Locutions aren't what we might call visions. As the label suggests; they
are imaginations, i.e. sort of like daydreams and/or soliloquy.
Well; curiously, when Teresa was finally given an official green light to set
up in India, the locutions ceased and for virtually all of her five decades as a
missionary in India she felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence.
So dry was Teresa's association with Christ that she began referring to him
as the absent one.
Teresa sort of reminds me of folks who claim to hear a still small voice in
their heads during times at prayer. Well; excuse me for skepticism but I
suspect that voice they hear in their heads is their own mental energy
playing tricks on them; and they can come to depend on that little voice as
assurance that their association with God is okay when in reality it's not.
_
Mother Teresa was encouraged to go to India on the strength of some
interior imaginative locutions she claims to have received from Christ himself
beginning in Sept of 1946 and ending some time in 1947.
** Locutions aren't what we might call visions. As the label suggests; they
are imaginations, i.e. sort of like daydreams and/or soliloquy.
Well; curiously, when Teresa was finally given an official green light to set
up in India, the locutions ceased and for virtually all of her five decades as a
missionary in India she felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence.
So dry was Teresa's association with Christ that she began referring to him
as the absent one.
Teresa sort of reminds me of folks who claim to hear a still small voice in
their heads during times at prayer. Well; excuse me for skepticism but I
suspect that voice they hear in their heads is their own mental energy
playing tricks on them; and they can come to depend on that little voice as
assurance that their association with God is okay when in reality it's not.
_
~
● Rom 8:15-16 …For you have not received a spirit of slavery again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out : Abba!
Father. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
While reading Teresa's private letters in the book "Mother Teresa, Come Be
My Light" by Father Brian Kolodiejchuk, M.C. it became quite obvious to me
almost immediately that Rom 8:15-16 never happened for her and no doubt
led to her feelings of abandonment by the one person she relied upon the most.
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and
do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we
have fellowship with one another" (1John 1:5-6)
If Teresa had been truly walking in the light all those five decades in India,
then the Spirit would've assured her of her standing before God, i.e. Christ
would most certainly would have kept company with her in India or
otherwise 1John 1:5-6 would be quite false.
In time, Teresa came to the end unsure there's a God out there, and if one
is, she was dreading He might not like her and might possibly be determined
to condemn her.
So; at the urging of Henry D'Souza, the Archbishop of Calcutta (a.k.a.
Kolkata), Teresa finally agreed to an exorcism in the final weeks of her life--
performed by Father Rosario Stroscio --if perchance demons were clouding
her mind. In the end, that poor woman went out of here in anxiety; unsure
of what to expect.
NOTE: Abba isn't translated from a Greek word, rather, it's transliterated
from an Aramaic word that means "father" but not in the usual way. It's a
vocative.
For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall
and says "That's my dad over there." he's not using dad as a vocative. But
when he shouts "Hey dad, I'm over here!" then he's using dad to get my
attention. That's a vocative.
In other words: the Spirit per Rom 8:15-16 assures me-- in some strange
unnatural way that I don't really quite understand --that it's okay to
approach God as someone a father adores as one of his very own next of
kin. Well, needless to say, that kind of assurance goes a long ways towards
dissolving feeling of abandonment and doubts about God's existence; and
for sure works to dispel fears of retribution.
"Grieve not the Spirit" (Eph 4:30)
"Quench not the Spirit" (1Thess 5:19)
Well I would certainly like to know what on earth it was that the most
illustrious nun of the the 20th century did that was so insufferable that she
managed to grieve the Spirit sufficiently to actually break off all
communication with Heaven above for virtually the entire five decades she
was active as a missionary.
_
● Rom 8:15-16 …For you have not received a spirit of slavery again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out : Abba!
Father. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
While reading Teresa's private letters in the book "Mother Teresa, Come Be
My Light" by Father Brian Kolodiejchuk, M.C. it became quite obvious to me
almost immediately that Rom 8:15-16 never happened for her and no doubt
led to her feelings of abandonment by the one person she relied upon the most.
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and
do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we
have fellowship with one another" (1John 1:5-6)
If Teresa had been truly walking in the light all those five decades in India,
then the Spirit would've assured her of her standing before God, i.e. Christ
would most certainly would have kept company with her in India or
otherwise 1John 1:5-6 would be quite false.
In time, Teresa came to the end unsure there's a God out there, and if one
is, she was dreading He might not like her and might possibly be determined
to condemn her.
So; at the urging of Henry D'Souza, the Archbishop of Calcutta (a.k.a.
Kolkata), Teresa finally agreed to an exorcism in the final weeks of her life--
performed by Father Rosario Stroscio --if perchance demons were clouding
her mind. In the end, that poor woman went out of here in anxiety; unsure
of what to expect.
NOTE: Abba isn't translated from a Greek word, rather, it's transliterated
from an Aramaic word that means "father" but not in the usual way. It's a
vocative.
For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall
and says "That's my dad over there." he's not using dad as a vocative. But
when he shouts "Hey dad, I'm over here!" then he's using dad to get my
attention. That's a vocative.
In other words: the Spirit per Rom 8:15-16 assures me-- in some strange
unnatural way that I don't really quite understand --that it's okay to
approach God as someone a father adores as one of his very own next of
kin. Well, needless to say, that kind of assurance goes a long ways towards
dissolving feeling of abandonment and doubts about God's existence; and
for sure works to dispel fears of retribution.
"Grieve not the Spirit" (Eph 4:30)
"Quench not the Spirit" (1Thess 5:19)
Well I would certainly like to know what on earth it was that the most
illustrious nun of the the 20th century did that was so insufferable that she
managed to grieve the Spirit sufficiently to actually break off all
communication with Heaven above for virtually the entire five decades she
was active as a missionary.
_
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The old fashioned Puritan term was experimental religion but they did mean [in the 16th century] experiential.
I almost dare not describe how I know God's voice when He speaks, it is a holy thing, but I do know His voice, His still small voice. But in general terms He pours His thoughts upon all His children which is what I guess the radio preacher was alluding to.
I almost dare not describe how I know God's voice when He speaks, it is a holy thing, but I do know His voice, His still small voice. But in general terms He pours His thoughts upon all His children which is what I guess the radio preacher was alluding to.
She was a wonderful saint ... I wish I coulda told her that.
The crippling factor was the Roman Catholic Church
Quite early on in her ministry she was brought to that place where she had to re-affirm her belief in RC doctrine including the sacraments.
The Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, there is no way possible for Him to endorse or authenticate RC doctrines or practices ... He just cannot do it.
But Mother Theresa was saved as a young nun she knelt before the cross and mourned that her sins had caused His suffering and she refused to get up until she KNEW God had forgiven her. She did get that assurance many Catholics have this or similar experiences but they have nothing to relate it to but their church ... that is why they lose the experience. But they are still saved.
The crippling factor was the Roman Catholic Church
Quite early on in her ministry she was brought to that place where she had to re-affirm her belief in RC doctrine including the sacraments.
The Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, there is no way possible for Him to endorse or authenticate RC doctrines or practices ... He just cannot do it.
But Mother Theresa was saved as a young nun she knelt before the cross and mourned that her sins had caused His suffering and she refused to get up until she KNEW God had forgiven her. She did get that assurance many Catholics have this or similar experiences but they have nothing to relate it to but their church ... that is why they lose the experience. But they are still saved.
There is no "but" in the Greek in John 1:17, rather John 1:16 says grace upon grace, so it is speaking about one example of grace being added upon another. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Moreover, in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.
Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as the result, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Our obedience to Mosaic Law is about God giving the content of the gift of salvation to us, not about us trying to earn salvation from God. It is contradictory for someone who think that they aren't obligated to obey the Mosaic Law to think that they need salvation from transgressing it.
Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as the result, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Our obedience to Mosaic Law is about God giving the content of the gift of salvation to us, not about us trying to earn salvation from God. It is contradictory for someone who think that they aren't obligated to obey the Mosaic Law to think that they need salvation from transgressing it.
In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and Romans 10:5-8 quotes that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, so believing that we can be doers of the law is not a matter of exalting ourselves, but a matter of having faith in God's word. Moreover, there are a number of examples of people in the Bible who were doers of the law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14. While do not earn our justification as the result of having first obeyed God's law, it is nevertheless still true that all of those who will be justified are doers of the law.
We become someone who has faith, someone who will be justified, and someone who is a doer of the law all at the same time, so someone who is not one of those things is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law.
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn him, so that is his yoke and burden. Furthermore, but Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so there is no room for thinking that his yoke and burden is something other than God's word.
The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142).
We become someone who has faith, someone who will be justified, and someone who is a doer of the law all at the same time, so someone who is not one of those things is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law.
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn him, so that is his yoke and burden. Furthermore, but Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so there is no room for thinking that his yoke and burden is something other than God's word.
The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142).
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin and there are many instances where the Apostles called for repentance from sin. The Bible repeatedly connects our belief/faith in God with our obedience to him, such as in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, so God's commandments are His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so everything in it is in regard to how to love, and if you think that we should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that we should obey the commandments than hang on them. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law.