Does "Elohim" in any way prove the Trinity?

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ewq1938

ewq1938

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#41
Oct 18, 2018
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#41
Eph2all said:
It suggests a plurality not necessarily a trinity.
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Well, God being understood as composed in plurality is a step in the right direction. God is more than two however. The bible states the Father, the Son and the HS are all God. So, God is more than 2 but one less than 4. :) Many do not care for the word "Trinity" even though it just means "three". Using three is fine though...such as "God is Three" or "the Three".
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#42
Jul 2, 2011
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#42
I do not understand the importance of the word, trinity, being made a doctrine. God told Moses, ::I will be What I will be." Is this not sufficient?

He also says, God is One, in the OT, and from the Lips of our very Savior, Jesus Yeshua.

To all of these declarations from God, add our faith, and we believe. No special words need apply, Our Maker is not prevented from being What He will Be.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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#43
JaumeJ said:
I do not understand the importance of the word, trinity, being made a doctrine. God told Moses, ::I will be What I will be." Is this not sufficient?

He also says, God is One, in the OT, and from the Lips of our very Savior, Jesus Yeshua.

To all of these declarations from God, add our faith, and we believe. No special words need apply, Our Maker is not prevented from being What He will Be.
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because from the first times after He ascended, there were many who said, Jesus Christ is not in substance, God. and there were many who said, the Spirit of God is not divine.

so the word and the formulation of what we know about Him came from the first few hundred years of the church as they dealt with heresy and confirmed what the gospel and the faith is that they contended for - -

that God Himself did appear in the flesh, and that He did not leave us alone, but gave us of His own Spirit, until He Himself returns for us
 
P

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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#44
JaumeJ said:
I do not understand the importance of the word, trinity, being made a doctrine. God told Moses, ::I will be What I will be." Is this not sufficient?

He also says, God is One, in the OT, and from the Lips of our very Savior, Jesus Yeshua.

To all of these declarations from God, add our faith, and we believe. No special words need apply, Our Maker is not prevented from being What He will Be.
Click to expand...
Toward the end of his life, Caesar Augustus adopted Caesar Tiberius and for two years they both reigned as a single rulership, CAESAR. That meant that whatever either one decreed was a decree of CAESAR, and a decree by one on behalf of both.

JHWH is a social trinity of three persons co-reigning with equal authority and with perfect unanimity. So, when scripture says that YHWH (singular) says "I (singular) decree that ... ", that is one of the divine Persons speaking on behalf of the triune community reigning as one God, YHWH. And what that one Person said was the unanimous will of all three reigning as one Almighty God, in a similar way that one could say during their joint reign of Tiberius decreeing something, "CAESAR (singular) says, "I (singular) decree that.... ' " and of Augustus decreeing something, "CAESAR (singular) says, 'I (singular) decree that.... ' " One CAESAR, two distinct persons. speaking in the singular.

Tiberius being limited in intellect and fallen in motives may personally have disagreed with Augustus' degree and vice versa, but one could not undo the other's decrees. However, the three divine persons are all omniscient, holy and perfect, so therefore never disagree with each other's decrees.
 
Eli1

Eli1

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#45
I don't understand .... but after 3 pages how come nobody has mentioned the factual evidence of the Trinity was when Jesus was baptized?
?
That is when people heard the voice of The Father from the sky and saw the Holy Spirit in the shape of a dove.
Very odd that nobody has mentioned this but it's okay because i mentioned it now. :)
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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#47
Marriage. Are husband and wife two distinct people or one flesh?

Hint: the answer is "yes".
 
U

uncle_mike

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#48
Dec 14, 2023
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#48
Does "Elohim" in any way prove the Trinity?


Not how the ancient Hebrew people understood it.
It does how other languages have chosen to interpret it.
 
U

uncle_mike

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#49
I actually had to a research to see if the word was used in the New Testament. It's not. That is kind of out there when we think about Jesus using the Father - the Son - the Holy Spirit for Baptism. Why didn't He just say, baptize in the name of Elohim if it has a plural meaning to the Jews? Clearly the Jews do not believe it has a plural meaning towards God.

Paul doesn't even use it and he is our Old Testament guru.
 
U

uncle_mike

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#50
That is weird. The New Testament is really where God is defined into three but nowhere do they use Elohim to describe the three who are God. They use Godhead or Divinity for Jesus. You would think they would use Elohim if it means plural towards God.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#51
uncle_mike said:
I actually had to a research to see if the word was used in the New Testament. It's not. That is kind of out there when we think about Jesus using the Father - the Son - the Holy Spirit for Baptism. Why didn't He just say, baptize in the name of Elohim?
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It has to do with the way God has chosen to dispense revelation. God has progressively, throughout history, revealed more of Himself, His ways, and His intentions.
We understand many things more fully this side of the cross. It's simply a matter of having more information to work with.
 
U

uncle_mike

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Dec 14, 2023
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Cameron143 said:
It has to do with the way God has chosen to dispense revelation. God has progressively, throughout history, revealed more of Himself, His ways, and His intentions.
We understand many things more fully this side of the cross. It's simply a matter of having more information to work with.
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Good point. Because the more I look into this the more it is confusing me. It seems odd not to use words already established when we believe they mean the same as words later on being used. I originally looked up Elohim and saw it was used in singular towards the God of the Hebrew people and interpreted as plural by other languages. But once Jesus began talking about the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, I would have believed it would now be used by the Jews. But it is not.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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uncle_mike said:
Good point. Because the more I look into this the more it is confusing me. It seems odd not to use words already established when we believe they mean the same as words later on being used. I originally looked up Elohim and saw it was used in singular towards the God of the Hebrew people. But once Jesus began talking about the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, I would have believed it would now be used by the Jews. But it is not.
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Different languages. And also written by more informed writers.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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PaulThomson said:
JHWH is a social trinity of three persons co-reigning with equal authority and with perfect unanimity.
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Not equal authority. Not even close.

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
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PaulThomson

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ewq1938 said:
Not equal authority. Not even close.

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
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"Who while being in the form of God did not consider a mutiny to keep on being equal with God, but emptied Himself, and having RECEIVED the form of a servant he became in rhe likeness of men. And being found in the fashion of a man he humbled himself and BECAME obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Wherefore God has highly exalted Him and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Ph'p. 2:6-11

"All authoroty in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt. 28:18
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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#57
PaulThomson said:
"Who while being in the form of God did not consider a mutiny to keep on being equal with God, but emptied Himself, and having RECEIVED the form of a servant he became in rhe likeness of men. And being found in the fashion of a man he humbled himself and BECAME obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Wherefore God has highly exalted Him and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Ph'p. 2:6-11

"All authoroty in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt. 28:18
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Doesn't change the fact that the head of Christ is his Father. The Father is the highest authority and is Christ's God.

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 
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PaulThomson

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ewq1938 said:
Doesn't change the fact that the head of Christ is his Father. The Father is the highest authority and is Christ's God.

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
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Is your head more powerful or authoritative than your body.? Is your head not part of your body? Does a Prime Minister or a Finance minister speak of "my government". Is he therefore separate from "his government"? Likewise the trinitarian God is the Sons God, and the trinitarian God is the Father's God too.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#59
PaulThomson said:
Is your head more powerful or authoritative than your body.?
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In scripture, the head of someone else means they have higher authority. God the Son is subservient to the God the Father.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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uncle_mike said:
That is weird. The New Testament is really where God is defined into three but nowhere do they use Elohim to describe the three who are God. They use Godhead or Divinity for Jesus. You would think they would use Elohim if it means plural towards God.
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The New Testament books were written in Greek, and elohim is a Hebrew word.
 
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