Who Justifieth the Ungodly

brightfame52 · Dec 15, 2023

Rom 5:16 clearly indicates Justification by Grace before Faith notice:

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

And not as what resulted through one man having sinned is the given-gift. For the judgment is from one trespass, resulting-in a verdict-of-condemnation; but the grace-gift is from many trespasses, resulting in a verdict-of-righteous. DLNT

16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification.

The backdrop of this Justification is after many sins, not faith or believing.

The word Justification here in Rom 5:16 is dikaiōma and means:

a judicial decision, sentence

of God
1. either the favourable judgment by which he acquits man and declares them acceptable to Him

This Judicial decision of Justification is through the act of Jesus Christ alone ! 33

reneweddaybyday · Dec 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope. Romans 5:16 contrasts the gift of God's grace with the consequence of the fall.

Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

brightfame52 said:

... the "backdrop" of Romans 5:16 is what is written in Romans 1 through and including Romans 5:16 ... you neglect the importance of context in your reading of Scripture ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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reneweddaybyday · Dec 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... read Isaiah 45:22, brightfame52 ...

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

God's desire is that all the ends of the earth ... all descendants of Adam ... to look to Him and be saved.

Those who reject God ... even as He reaches out to them ... shall not be saved (Isaiah 45:22) nor shall they be justified (Isaiah 45:25).

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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brightfame52 · Dec 17, 2023

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith because Faith is given as a result and an evidence that Christ put away their sins, hence Justifying them. We see this by Paul's words written to the Corinthians here 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So the point is, since Christ was raised up, that shows you aren't in your sins, Christ having put them away before Gods law and Justice, therefore Faith is given to give realization of that before your mind and heart Heb 11:1.

See Jesus was raised again because of our Justification if He was delivered to Justice because of our sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Since Christ was raised, our God given Faith isn't in vain, that we are are not in our sins ! Not being in our sins is connected and resultive to the fact that Christ was raised after having put our sins away , and not connected or resultive with our faith ! 33

brightfame52 · Dec 17, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

... nope. Romans 5:16 contrasts the gift of God's grace with the consequence of the fall.

Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

... the "backdrop" of Romans 5:16 is what is written in Romans 1 through and including Romans 5:16 ... you neglect the importance of context in your reading of Scripture ...

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Opposing the Truth

brightfame52 · Dec 17, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Israel that is Justified is out of the ends of the Earth, both from among jews and the other nations as promised Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Rom 3:29-30

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

So they make up the Israel Promised to be Justified in the Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ

Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Its a seed Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

reneweddaybyday · Dec 17, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Your proof text fails to state that "Faith is given as a result of and an evidence that Christ put away their sins".

The verse says nothing about faith being given.

The verse states that if the Lord Jesus Christ was not resurrected from the dead, "your faith is vain" ... it is empty.

brightfame52 said:

Faith is inherent in all mankind ... all descendants of Adam have faith. Hebrews 11:1 does not state that "Faith is given" only to some ... all mankind has faith:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The issue is not "do you have faith".

The issue is in Whom do you place your faith ... in Whom do you trust with those things yet hoped for?

brightfame52 said:

... the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead because it was not possible that death could hold him:

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave even if no one believed.

brightfame52 said:

hmmmm ... Who do you believe, brightfame52 ... the Lord Jesus Christ? ... or the source of your erroneous dogma?

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Dec 17, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all

Righteousness is imputed to those who believe ... at the very moment they believe ...

Those who reject God will suffer the consequence of their decision to not believe.
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brightfame52 · Dec 17, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Your proof text fails to state that "Faith is given as a result of and an evidence that Christ put away their sins".

The verse says nothing about faith being given.

The verse states that if the Lord Jesus Christ was not resurrected from the dead, "your faith is vain" ... it is empty.

Faith is inherent in all mankind ... all descendants of Adam have faith. Hebrews 11:1 does not state that "Faith is given" only to some ... all mankind has faith:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The issue is not "do you have faith".

The issue is in Whom do you place your faith ... in Whom do you trust with those things yet hoped for?

... the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead because it was not possible that death could hold him:

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave even if no one believed.

hmmmm ... Who do you believe, brightfame52 ... the Lord Jesus Christ? ... or the source of your erroneous dogma?

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Faith is only given to them whom sins have been put away.

brightfame52 · Dec 17, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Thats the seed of Israel whom its promised to them to Justified in the Lord Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

reneweddaybyday · Dec 17, 2023

brightfame52 said:

still waiting for chapter and verse for your claim, brightfame52.

As shown in Post 4247, your previous proof text did not state what you claim.

brightfame52 said:

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) ... held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gill_(theologian)

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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brightfame52 · Dec 19, 2023

Writers comments on Gal 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The verb “justify” is in the passive voice, thus, literally, it is “to be justified.” It occurs here for the first time in Paul’s epistles, and no less than three times in one verse (v. 16). Justification is not something we do. It is something done for us and given to us freely. It is the gracious act of God, whereby, on the basis solely of Christ’s accomplished mediatorial work, he declares the sinner just. The work was done by the decree of God in eternity (Rom. 8:29-30). Yes, all God’s elect were in the purpose of God justified from eternity, by the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Our justification was obtained by Christ when he died at Calvary as our Substitute. He was delivered unto death by the sword of divine justice because of our sins imputed to him, and raised again by the glory of God because of our justification accomplished by his sacrifice (Rom. 4:25). Faith in Christ does not accomplish justification, but receives it as the free grace gift of God (Rom. 5:1, 10-11; 8:1, 30, 33; Tit. 3:7). Faith in Christ is not a condition upon which justification is granted, but one of the many, blessed fruits of justification accomplished. It is not our faith that justifies us, but Christ who is the Object of our faith.

Justification is a judicial act of God. It does not come as the result of man’s effort (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 3:11; 5:4). It is not even the result of faith (Eph. 2:8). It took place when Christ satisfied the demands of the law as a Substitute for his elect (Rom. 3:24; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 1:7). Man can never earn it. He only receives it by faith. And even the faith by which we receive it is the gift of God’s grace (Eph. 2:8). “Man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”https://www.pristinegrace.org/books...ortner/DF_Discovering Christ In Galatians.pdf 34

brightfame52 · Dec 21, 2023

.Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Such are justified by Christ, whose iniquities he bore; that is, suffered and satisfied for in his death: to this harmonize those writings of the apostle Paul , "He was delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification," Rom. 4: 25

This is a legal fact while ungodly !

reneweddaybyday · Dec 21, 2023

brightfame52 said:

I have been telling you this for quite a while now, brightfame52 (click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click).

Do you now believe this truth because of what Don Fortner has written? if that is the case, then you are a follower of men.

We are to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone.

There were many problems in the church at Corinth and Paul makes clear in the first few chapters of 1 Corinthians the problem in the church was that folks were followers of men:

1 Corinthians 3:3-4 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Dec 21, 2023

brightfame52 said:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) ...

Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Righteousness is imputed to those who believe ... at the very moment they believe they are no longer "ungodly !"

Those who reject God will suffer the consequence of their decision to not believe ... they remain "ungodly !".
.

brightfame52 · Dec 22, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

I have been telling you this for quite a while now, brightfame52 (click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click).

Do you now believe this truth because of what Don Fortner has written? if that is the case, then you are a follower of men.

We are to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone.

There were many problems in the church at Corinth and Paul makes clear in the first few chapters of 1 Corinthians the problem in the church was that folks were followers of men:

1 Corinthians 3:3-4 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

It is not our faith that justifies us, but Christ who is the Object of our faith.

brightfame52 · Dec 22, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) ...

Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Righteousness is imputed to those who believe ... at the very moment they believe they are no longer "ungodly !"

Those who reject God will suffer the consequence of their decision to not believe ... they remain "ungodly !".
.

"He was delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification," Rom. 4: 25

This is a legal fact while ungodly !

brightfame52 · Dec 23, 2023

Are men Justified before God while in a unregenerate , unbelieving, ungodly state ? The answer is yes, if they be Gods Elect, for scripture says Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now are the Elect, Elect before God before they are regenerate and become believers ? Again Yes, its the same as saying Gods Sheep and His Sheep before they become believers. Remember Jesus said of His Sheep that had not yet believed Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[elect] I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall[future] hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Also Paul writes that God Justified the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

John Gill writes on Rom 4:5

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them:

34

reneweddaybyday · Dec 24, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... do you even read responses to the posts you submit?

I have been telling you that it is the Object of faith Who justifies ... and I provided links to 15 posts previously submitted by me to you wherein that is what I have stated.

My question to you is ... do you now believe this truth because your source (Don Fortner) is now telling you ?

If so, then you are a follower of men ...
.

reneweddaybyday · Dec 24, 2023

brightfame52 said:

what you are saying, brightfame52, is that the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient ... that the born again one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ but remains ungodly even though the Holy Spirit resides within him or her.

that is what you want me to believe, brightfame52 ... and I utterly refuse to be tossed about by your erroneous dogma.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

click
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Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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