Israel Declares War

[ZNP]

Deciding the woman was guilty of adultery was the judgment and it was a capital offense in that time, prior to the Savior fulfilling the old and bringing a new covenant. However, to be clear, saying adultery is a sin is not judging. IF a person commits adultery, that person has sinned. The judgment comes from God as He is the ultimate judge and decides what is a sin and what isn't. If anyone has an issue with saying murder, adultery, stealing, etc... is a sin, their issue isn't with the person stating the fact, it's with Heavenly Father.

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."

Those judgments have already been made in the Bible and everyone will have to stand before the Lord Jesus to be judged for the the things done in the body.

The question here is about casting stones at other sinners.

According to the NT there are two types of people, sinners who have received the redemptive work Jesus did on the cross, whose sins have been forgiven, and therefore are also merciful to other sinners, and sinners who this is not the case.

 

[Smoke]

The question here is about casting stones at other sinners.

That's sort of my point though. People think that when you call out a behavior as being a sin, you are judging them. In your own words, the judgment was already made and we are merely restating what God has said. As to judging if someone is guilty of committing the act (stealing, murder, adultery, etc...), that's a different story. Nevertheless, 100% of Christians should have no hesitation saying "IF Jon murdered Mohammad, then that would be a sin, even if Mohammad was living in the West Bank."

 

[ZNP]

That's sort of my point though. People think that when you call out a behavior as being a sin, you are judging them. In your own words, the judgment was already made and we are merely restating what God has said. As to judging if someone is guilty of committing the act (stealing, murder, adultery, etc...), that's a different story. Nevertheless, 100% of Christians should have no hesitation saying "IF Jon murdered Mohammad, then that would be a sin, even if Mohammad was living in the West Bank."

There is no way to avoid being judged by the Lord for the things done in this life. People who think "I'll just keep quiet and say nothing that way I won't be judged" are deceiving themselves, you will be judged for staying quiet when you should have been speaking.

There is only one "cheat code" to this judgement and that is mercy. If you are very generous with judging others with mercy, then with what judgement you judge you shall be judged. The Lord is not saying it is possible to not judge, what He is saying is it is possible to treat others with mercy.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[Smoke]

There is no way to avoid being judged by the Lord for the things done in this life. People who think "I'll just keep quiet and say nothing that way I won't be judged" are deceiving themselves, you will be judged for staying quiet when you should have been speaking.

There is only one "cheat code" to this judgement and that is mercy. If you are very generous with judging others with mercy, then with what judgement you judge you shall be judged. The Lord is not saying it is possible to not judge, what He is saying is it is possible to treat others with mercy.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Agree entirely sir.

 

[cv5]

Deciding the woman was guilty of adultery was the judgment

Get a clue buddy. Don't you realized and understand that the whole escapade was a "set up" by the pharisees and she was nothing more than the hapless patsy and victim of their intrigue? And all of this was to confront and then condemn JESUS Himself (in vain of course......He had all of the right answers and responses....every - single - time).

The ones who were guilty were the pharisees themselves. Who were probably guilty of adultery WITH HER.

Is everyone around here a clueless idiot or what?

 

[cv5]

Do you ever discuss in good faith? Probably a good idea to not play dumb and try to twist what people actually say. Just friendly advice.

You wrongly assume that you are the boss (and judge) of me. You aren't. And don't you ever forget it.

But then again, brazen and false accusations are your calling card.

 

[Smoke]

Get a clue buddy. Don't you realized and understand that the whole escapade was a "set up" by the pharisees and she was nothing more than the hapless patsy and victim of their intrigue? And all of this was to confront and then condemn JESUS Himself (in vain of course......He had all of the right answers and responses....every - single - time).

The ones who were guilty were the pharisees themselves. Who were probably guilty of adultery WITH HER.

Is everyone around here a clueless idiot or what?

I know the story very well... You're wrong brother. You're disagreeing with the statement I made about how they judged her and sentenced her to death... I'm not sure why.

Furthermore, you clearly need to reread the story. The story states she was caught committing adultery. If you think she wasn't guilty of anything, then you assume the woman really didn't commit adultery. I would be extremely cautious in assuming the woman was innocent of adultery unless you have biblical evidence to support it. You shouldn't assume the only ones who were guilty were the pharisees.

John 8:10-11

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

In your mind, Jesus tells her that she is innocent of adultery and only the pharisees are guilty. Jesus NEVER tells the woman she never committed adultery neither does He state adultery is not a sin. You're pretending Jesus said that, but it doesn't make it true. Jesus clearly states "Go now and leave your life of sin" in addition to "neither do I condemn you". Meaning, she is forgiven of her sin of adultery and no longer is she required to be put to death for it.

In conclusion, she WAS guilty of adultery in spite of you only pointing guilt at the pharisees. Adultery is a sin, especially as Jesus eludes to it being a sin when He commands her to leave her life of sin. Saying the woman sinned IS NOT judging her, it's pointing out a judgment God has already made about adultery.

 

[Smoke]

You wrongly assume that you are the boss (and judge) of me. You aren't. And don't you ever forget it.

But then again, brazen and false accusations are your calling card.

Not once have I ever declared to be the boss and judge. I have only stated murder, stealing, adultery, etc... are sins. Your issue isn't with me saying those acts are sins... your issue is with God declaring those acts are sins. I encourage you to pray to Him and reconcile your issue about calling sin a sin and why He has declared them sins. Only God will judge people who do those acts. I pray you have the courage to declare what God has already declared to be a sin and not cower to society as to avoid appearing like a bigot.

 

[ZNP]

There is no way to avoid being judged by the Lord for the things done in this life. People who think "I'll just keep quiet and say nothing that way I won't be judged" are deceiving themselves, you will be judged for staying quiet when you should have been speaking.

There is only one "cheat code" to this judgement and that is mercy. If you are very generous with judging others with mercy, then with what judgement you judge you shall be judged. The Lord is not saying it is possible to not judge, what He is saying is it is possible to treat others with mercy.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Applying this to the ones who dragged the woman caught in adultery to the Lord. The issue was not about judging that adultery was sin, the issue was about what you should do about it. Should you have a public stoning?

If you try and publicly humiliate others for their sins then you also will be publicly humiliated and put to an open shame. You will be judged with the same judgement that you judge others.

If instead you talk to someone privately to tell them their fault, then that will be how you are treated.

If you ignore sins and keep quiet while others are wronged, then you also will be wronged and no one will care.

If you ignore the word of God then God will ignore your words and you will be of no account.

You are going to be judged by God, and with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

 

[Kroogz]

were probably guilty of adultery WITH HER.

He may have been writing the names of the pharisees that were involved with her in the dirt.

 

[Smoke]

Applying this to the ones who dragged the woman caught in adultery to the Lord. The issue was not about judging that adultery was sin, the issue was about what you should do about it. Should you have a public stoning?

When someone says "The ones who were guilty were the pharisees ", they are implying that she wasn't actually guilty of adultery. That is twisting scripture. She is guilty of sin, and IF she did commit adultery, saying she sinned is not judging her. Stoning was the judgment being carried out under the Mosaic law... not the verbal declaration that adultery is a sin. I think this is the point some are missing.

There is an attempt at making a declaration of sin a sin the same thing as "judging" someone. The judgment was already made by God... at this point, it's a declaration of what God has already judged.

If you try and publicly humiliate others for their sins then you also will be publicly humiliated and put to an open shame. You will be judged with the same judgement that you judge others.

Proverbs 24:11-12

New King James Version

11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death,
And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

12 If you say, “Surely we did not know this,”
Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it?
He who keeps your soul, does He not know it?
And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?

Calling out what Israel is doing when they murder, displace, and steal homes/personal possessions from Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem isn't "publicly humiliating" them. It's declaring that murder and stealing is a sin and that Israel ought not to be doing it. The problem is that people think God gave Israel a waiver to murder and steal from Palestinians in the promised land because "God gave Jews the land".

Kind of like when you expose Biden, the left, covid vaccines, etc... You aren't trying to publicly humiliate all those sinners... maybe you are actually... I don't know. Are you? I give you the benefit of the doubt in that you are just trying to expose corruption which I think Proverbs 24:11-12 tells us we shouldn't just sit back when we know this type of evil is occurring.

If instead you talk to someone privately to tell them their fault, then that will be how you are treated.

If you ignore sins and keep quiet while others are wronged, then you also will be wronged and no one will care.

If you ignore the word of God then God will ignore your words and you will be of no account.

You are going to be judged by God, and with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

I agree with everything on an individual basis. When it's the state that is corrupt and they persist in their evils in spite of the people speaking out about it, one can't simply pull them aside.

 

[Smoke]

He may have been writing the names of the pharisees that were involved with her in the dirt.

I believe this is extremely likely. Under the Mosaic law, they are suppose to stone both guilty parties, not just one. Surely, the pharisees didn't want to die themselves so they didn't cast the judgment out on her. I kind of wish I could have seen the pharisees' faces when/if Jesus wrote their names down in the sand...

 

[ZNP]

When someone says "The ones who were guilty were the pharisees ", they are implying that she wasn't actually guilty of adultery. That is twisting scripture. She is guilty of sin, and IF she did commit adultery, saying she sinned is not judging her. Stoning was the judgment being carried out under the Mosaic law... not the verbal declaration that adultery is a sin. I think this is the point some are missing.

There is an attempt at making a declaration of sin a sin the same thing as "judging" someone. The judgment was already made by God... at this point, it's a declaration of what God has already judged.




Proverbs 24:11-12

New King James Version

11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death,
And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

12 If you say, “Surely we did not know this,”
Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it?
He who keeps your soul, does He not know it?
And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?

Calling out what Israel is doing when they murder, displace, and steal homes/personal possessions from Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem isn't "publicly humiliating" them. It's declaring that murder and stealing is a sin and that Israel ought not to be doing it. The problem is that people think God gave Israel a waiver to murder and steal from Palestinians in the promised land because "God gave Jews the land".

Kind of like when you expose Biden, the left, covid vaccines, etc... You aren't trying to publicly humiliate all those sinners... maybe you are actually... I don't know. Are you? I give you the benefit of the doubt in that you are just trying to expose corruption which I think Proverbs 24:11-12 tells us we shouldn't just sit back when we know this type of evil is occurring.




I agree with everything on an individual basis. When it's the state that is corrupt and they persist in their evils in spite of the people speaking out about it, one can't simply pull them aside.

You don't have to convince me, you and I both have to be faithful to the Lord.

 

[ZNP]

I believe this is extremely likely. Under the Mosaic law, they are suppose to stone both guilty parties, not just one. Surely, the pharisees didn't want to die themselves so they didn't cast the judgment out on her. I kind of wish I could have seen the pharisees' faces when/if Jesus wrote their names down in the sand...

I think everyone agrees He was writing their sins in the dirt and as their conscience was pricked that they were not without sin they left. But it is way too simplistic to think that they were all guilty of adultery or even adultery with this woman. In my experience people are blinded by pride, the ones who drag an adulterer out are those who are not guilty of adultery, but may be guilty of stealing.

 

[cv5]

... I'm not sure why.

Exactly. A ringing refrain that is evident for all to see page after page.......

 

[cv5]

I believe this is extremely likely. Under the Mosaic law, they are suppose to stone both guilty parties, not just one. Surely, the pharisees didn't want to die themselves so they didn't cast the judgment out on her. I kind of wish I could have seen the pharisees' faces when/if Jesus wrote their names down in the sand...

Get a grip on reality. She was the used and abused town floozy and everybody had their way with her. If anything she was the victim more than anything else. Furthermore they would have had no intention whatsoever of condemning her.......except for now. They finally decided to kick her to the curb once and for all and were fully prepared to murder her as a means to attempt to destroy Jesus. The Pharisees obviously set the whole thing up so that she could be caught red-handed with witnesses. They knew exactly where she was and when. AND WHERE WAS THE MAN? He was nowhere to be found. Because he was in on the scheme. The man was obviously allowed to escape.

If however Jesus wasn't around there is no doubt she would have NOT been singled out for condemnation, and purposefully kept alive as the victim of further abuse.

Did everyone around here just fall of the turnip truck? Because the stupefying ignorance around here is truly appalling.

 

[Kroogz]

Get a grip on reality. She was the used and abused town floozy and everybody had their way with her. If anything she was the victim more than anything else. Furthermore they would have had no intention whatsoever of condemning her.......except for now. They finally decided to kick her to the curb once and for all and were fully prepared to murder her as a means to attempt to destroy Jesus. The Pharisees obviously set the whole thing up so that she could be caught red-handed with witnesses. They knew exactly where she was and when. AND WHERE WAS THE MAN? He was nowhere to be found. Because he was in on the scheme. The man was obviously allowed to escape.

If however Jesus wasn't around there is no doubt she would have NOT been singled out for condemnation, and purposefully kept alive as the victim of further abuse.

Did everyone around here just fall of the turnip truck? Because the stupefying ignorance around here is truly appalling.

Did I miss something? It looked as if he was agreeing with you?

 

[Smoke]

Get a grip on reality. She was the used and abused town floozy and everybody had their way with her. If anything she was the victim more than anything else. Furthermore they would have had no intention whatsoever of condemning her.......except for now. They finally decided to kick her to the curb once and for all and were fully prepared to murder her as a means to attempt to destroy Jesus. The Pharisees obviously set the whole thing up so that she could be caught red-handed with witnesses. They knew exactly where she was and when. AND WHERE WAS THE MAN? He was nowhere to be found. Because he was in on the scheme. The man was obviously allowed to escape.

If however Jesus wasn't around there is no doubt she would have NOT been singled out for condemnation, and purposefully kept alive as the victim of further abuse.

Did everyone around here just fall of the turnip truck? Because the stupefying ignorance around here is truly appalling.

So you want to insult pretty much everyone who isn't agreeing with you? This is how the left acts when they can no longer articulate a rational argument after someone exposes the hole in their logic/reasoning. It's not very fruitful to engage further. I just hope you don't spread a false narrative that the woman who committed adultery was really an innocent victim. God bless!

 

[Smoke]

Did I miss something? It looked as if he was agreeing with you?

We agree on almost everything, even about the pharisees, but where we disagree is that he thinks she wasn't guilty. He said she is a victim and the only guilty people were the pharisees. Christ forgave her and didn't condemn her, but instead commanded her to go and leave her sinful life behind implying she was in fact a sinner (just like everyone else). If she wasn't guilty, what was it that Christ forgave her of?

He was lecturing me about the pharisees as if I said anything different. This is just evidence that he doesn't even really read what I'm saying and instead is just wanting to reply and spit personal insults.

 

[Kroogz]

We agree on almost everything, even about the pharisees, but where we disagree is that he thinks she wasn't guilty. He said she is a victim and the only guilty people were the pharisees. Christ forgave her and didn't condemn her, but instead commanded her to go and leave her sinful life behind implying she was in fact a sinner (just like everyone else). If she wasn't guilty, what was it that Christ forgave her of?

Thanks. I missed this part of the dialog.