Orthodox Jew answers a few questions
- Thread starter Aviva
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
The primary mission of every Christian is to spread the Gospel in the hopes that the Holy Spirit will activate the dormant faith in unbelievers.
This lady has been presented the Gospel in varying ways, even from the Torah. As yet, she has remained Spiritually blinded, and has rejected her Jewish Messiah.
Her religion, which is some type of Talmudic Orthodox Judaism, is no different than every other religion on earth. The Jews have no Temple. They have no way to cover over their sins (the blood of animals can NEVER remove them permanently) with the sacrifice of animals. Which is exactly what the Torah demands of them.
So they have come up with a works based theology to pay for sin. Just like Islam, Mormonism, JWs, Hindus, Buddhists, etc….
She remains engaged on a Christian chat website. So maybe the Holy Spirit will soften her heart to receive Him. Why else would one who does not believe in the Messiah stay?
This lady has been presented the Gospel in varying ways, even from the Torah. As yet, she has remained Spiritually blinded, and has rejected her Jewish Messiah.
Her religion, which is some type of Talmudic Orthodox Judaism, is no different than every other religion on earth. The Jews have no Temple. They have no way to cover over their sins (the blood of animals can NEVER remove them permanently) with the sacrifice of animals. Which is exactly what the Torah demands of them.
So they have come up with a works based theology to pay for sin. Just like Islam, Mormonism, JWs, Hindus, Buddhists, etc….
She remains engaged on a Christian chat website. So maybe the Holy Spirit will soften her heart to receive Him. Why else would one who does not believe in the Messiah stay?
It amazes me how similar these people are today as they were 2000 years ago. Recount what the apostle Stephen testified of them, before they martyred him:
Acts 7:51-54
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Some will hear the truth, and at once embrace it joyfully. Others will reject it, and hate it so much as to even seek to silence those who speak it.
The pillars of the Jewish religion
1. Keeping the Sabbath and the ten commandments
2. Rules concerning what is clean and what isn't. (Kosher food, etc)
3. Rules concerning your covenant with God, including circumcision.
Anyone claiming to be "orthodox" must address these three pillars so let's look at that.
1. There are four sabbaths per month, the first quarter of the moon, the full moon, the third quarter and the new moon which can be 2-3 days. Any Jew who is on the Gregorian or Julian calendar is not keeping the Sabbath. The Old Testament clearly and emphatically condemns keeping the sabbath on an "unholy" day. Imagine keeping the Sabbath on a day named after Satan, the enemy of God. "Saturday" is not the sabbath day. God is sovereign, He rules on the throne, if the world does not allow you to keep the Sabbath you need to ask God why that is. Claiming you can keep the sabbath on "Saturday" is like trying to clothe yourself with a fig leaf. There are many other laws like giving the land a sabbath rest every seven years as well. Only in Israel could there be anyone who comes close to this, but even there many make excuses for working on sabbath days.
2. Kosher doesn't simply mean you don't eat pork. You can't keep these laws if you eat at a restaurant or home that cooks pork. There are many other foods that are unclean as well. No "orthodox Jew" can eat at Mcdonald's or pretty much any restaurant worldwide. It is very difficult to live according to these laws while not living in Israel. This includes the break room at the office. So again, it is almost impossible for someone who is not in Israel to keep these laws. Again, claiming to be "orthodox Jew" while not keeping these Kosher laws is insulting to God.
3. Circumcision indicates they have a covenant with God, it is a covenant relationship. Like a wedding ring. This covenant relationship includes the land of Israel. Imagine you were to marry a man, but you didn't want to live in his house or even in the same country where He is living. It is absurd.
Therefore I would argue that only Christians can possibly be "orthodox Jews". Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, if He decides to change the day we remember Him to the Lord's day He has that right. Jesus on the cross cleansed all food and all people. So because of the cross of Christ we can go everywhere and bring the gospel to everyone. The cross of Christ is our sign of our covenant. If our heart has the marks of the cross on it, if we have a new heart, then we can dwell with Jesus in our heart everywhere. We don't need to worship on a mountain in Israel, we can worship the Lord everywhere because the church is the house of God.
1. Keeping the Sabbath and the ten commandments
2. Rules concerning what is clean and what isn't. (Kosher food, etc)
3. Rules concerning your covenant with God, including circumcision.
Anyone claiming to be "orthodox" must address these three pillars so let's look at that.
1. There are four sabbaths per month, the first quarter of the moon, the full moon, the third quarter and the new moon which can be 2-3 days. Any Jew who is on the Gregorian or Julian calendar is not keeping the Sabbath. The Old Testament clearly and emphatically condemns keeping the sabbath on an "unholy" day. Imagine keeping the Sabbath on a day named after Satan, the enemy of God. "Saturday" is not the sabbath day. God is sovereign, He rules on the throne, if the world does not allow you to keep the Sabbath you need to ask God why that is. Claiming you can keep the sabbath on "Saturday" is like trying to clothe yourself with a fig leaf. There are many other laws like giving the land a sabbath rest every seven years as well. Only in Israel could there be anyone who comes close to this, but even there many make excuses for working on sabbath days.
2. Kosher doesn't simply mean you don't eat pork. You can't keep these laws if you eat at a restaurant or home that cooks pork. There are many other foods that are unclean as well. No "orthodox Jew" can eat at Mcdonald's or pretty much any restaurant worldwide. It is very difficult to live according to these laws while not living in Israel. This includes the break room at the office. So again, it is almost impossible for someone who is not in Israel to keep these laws. Again, claiming to be "orthodox Jew" while not keeping these Kosher laws is insulting to God.
3. Circumcision indicates they have a covenant with God, it is a covenant relationship. Like a wedding ring. This covenant relationship includes the land of Israel. Imagine you were to marry a man, but you didn't want to live in his house or even in the same country where He is living. It is absurd.
Therefore I would argue that only Christians can possibly be "orthodox Jews". Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, if He decides to change the day we remember Him to the Lord's day He has that right. Jesus on the cross cleansed all food and all people. So because of the cross of Christ we can go everywhere and bring the gospel to everyone. The cross of Christ is our sign of our covenant. If our heart has the marks of the cross on it, if we have a new heart, then we can dwell with Jesus in our heart everywhere. We don't need to worship on a mountain in Israel, we can worship the Lord everywhere because the church is the house of God.
https://www.jpost.com/us-elections/why-are-so-many-orthodox-jews-voting-for-trump-analysis-647681
Why are so many Orthodox Jews voting for Trump? - analysis
Enthusiasm for Trump amongst Orthodox communities and leaders is high and vocal.
By JEREMY SHARONNOVEMBER 1, 2020 22:29
How US Jews identify religiously can also, to a great extent, show how they will vote in the presidential election, with the AJC poll showing that 74% of Orthodox Jews support Trump, compared to between 20% to 23% of non-Orthodox Jews.
Why are so many Orthodox Jews voting for Trump? - analysis
Enthusiasm for Trump amongst Orthodox communities and leaders is high and vocal.
By JEREMY SHARONNOVEMBER 1, 2020 22:29
How US Jews identify religiously can also, to a great extent, show how they will vote in the presidential election, with the AJC poll showing that 74% of Orthodox Jews support Trump, compared to between 20% to 23% of non-Orthodox Jews.
How do we know there are three pillars?
Consider the Ark of the Covenant. There are three things inside signifying these three pillars.
1. The ten commandments, of which keeping the Sabbath is one.
2. The Manna signifying Kosher food. You are what you eat.
3. The budded rod of Aaron. Signifying our covenant with God where we are priests of God.
Ezekiel told us the new covenant would put these things in our heart. The Lord puts His laws in our heart, we eat the word of God as our daily food and when we walk in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we are priests of the most High God.
Remember what Gamaliel said about Peter and the apostles. If this is of man it will disappear like the other phony ones claiming to be anointed from God. But if it is of God don't fight them or you will be fighting against God. Well the New Testament and the Christians have not disappeared. But what happened to the Jews who denied the Lord? They are left desperately trying to keep up a religion that is in tatters. Everything they claim to believe has crumbled. According to Moses and the Prophets they are waiting for a Messiah of the tribe of Judah. How would they know today who is from the tribe of Judah? He is to be born in Bethlehem, a town that is controlled by the Muslims and predominantly all Muslim. He is supposed to be the lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world. That means He is to be killed like the Passover lamb, hung on a cross to drain the blood. No one has been crucified for almost two thousand years. He is supposed to ride into Jerusalem on a donkey, that would be ridiculous today.
The rabbis have been making stuff up for the last two thousand years, their refusal to accept Jesus Christ as Messiah as gotten very old.
ZNP, bro- I could be wrong, but, I feel like you skipped breakfast or something today.
The prophet said he would come out of Judah- it's a true statement. But it doesn't say that you need to personally verify the DNA and genealogy of the messiah.
And in Jesus time, it was controlled by a maniac that had jewish boys massacred. God beats the odds every time.
Factually incorrect. It's actually closer to 200 than it is to 2000.
Why can't the messiah ride a donkey? What did donkeys ever do to you? It's certainly the exception more than the rule; but people still utilize donkeys where it is practical to do so.
The point of prophecy in the Bible is so that the people would know who is the Messiah and who isn't. If the Jews cannot verify that a prophecy is fulfilled then they cannot be held accountable for rejecting the Messiah. When Jesus was crucified He condemned them because "they didn't know the time of their visitation". The prophecies were very clear, they should have known and they didn't. So no, if you cannot verify that you are of the tribe of Judah and of which lines in the tribe of Judah you are from then there are many prophecies that you cannot verify and that makes them pointless.
So then line upon line? This is how I eventually came to understand scripture but I see in the English Tanakh it is line for a line
Does that change the meaning?
I've learned a lot from this thread and your responses. I appreciate it.
I'll admit that it is much preferable to me to speak to an actual person rather than sifting a bunch of information on the internet to reconcile opposing beliefs about who Messiah is/might be.
Earlier, I had expressed the sentiment that I wasn't interested in what you thought of His followers... but, after seeing the comment about the Denny's menu, it stirred a wonder how the apostles, who wrote the NT epistles, most of these (if not all, idk, I haven't researched very extensively in that regard) having come from within the Jewish community, are regarded. Most of them (again, I haven't researched extensively in this regard either) endured awful deaths for the sake of the gospel. Have you looked at any of their letters? Have you ever considered it? or is the NT a sort of 'taboo' material you must steer away from?
Translating languages, even modern ones, is not easy because sometimes there is no word/phrase that matches 1 to 1. When it's an ancient language like classical Hebrew it's all the harder. Genesis 6 talks about Nephilim which is translated numerous ways but we don't actually know what it means... the exact meaning lost to history. Therefore sometimes we have to make our best guess or slot in something that is close but not exact which can alter the meaning slightly.
Which version of the Torah are You using? The Chabad claims the Nephilim are from the sons of nobles, while other Torah versions use sons of God. What's interesting, both are referring to heavenly beings. By understanding this much, for them to be with human women means disobedience. So these heavenly beings were disobeying God directly. If this is true, Nephilim would be part fallen heavenly being and part human. In the Talmud, using examples from the Oral Tradition of Enoch, they claim when a Nephilim died its spirit became demons. This generally is a well known traditional Jewish idealism.
Jewish Concepts: Demons & Demonology
Jewish Virtual Library
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org › demons-and-de...
In contrast, the Zohar, following a talmudic legend, stresses the origin of the demons in sexual intercourse between humans and demonic powers.
I do not believe in nor follow kabbalah. The term has been translated numerous ways and "sons of G-d" also has vague meanings in ancient Hebrew, it can also mean giants (lit. "large ones") or fallen. Giants itself can mean "men of stature" in the metaphorical sense like the CEO of Money Crop is a "man of stature".
We're just not sure.
For Orthodox Jews (or even non-Orthodox Jews) the NT is in fact "taboo". After all they do not want their adherents to know the truth about Christ. This goes all the way back to the enemies of Jesus of Nazareth. They saw and heard everything but shut their eyes and ears to the truth. And this was already prophesied long before it happened.
I suppose it must be if it is compared to a Danny's menu, which offers bacon strips and sausage links with their scrambled eggs and buttermilk biscuits.
Dude, how about not speaking on behalf of another group you know nothing about? It is not taboo, I have read the first four Gospels, 1st, 2nd and 3rd John, Revelations and Hebrews. My husband's bible is sitting on my computer desk. My Rabbi has read the entire New Testament. Do some of you realize how foolish you look to us when you assume without asking?
I'm not equating the bible to a Denny's menu. I realize it's important to Christians and I wouldn't be that cavalier towards something important to them. I'm only saying quoting it to a Jewish person is going to mean as much as said menu because we don't believe in it. If the Tanakh says the things people are claiming they should be able to demonstrate that from the Tanakh, or show how the Christian bible isn't contradicting it.
So it is in fact mentally "taboo", even though technically it is not forbidden or prohibited.
After all an unbiased person would take a very careful look at any writing which claims to be divinely inspired to see if it were true or false. And those who would do so for the New Testament would soon discover that it is God's truth. To even consider that countless millions of people have believed on Christ for over 2,000 years should give pause to any unbiased person.
Also you have read only a few of the NT books (totally avoiding Paul's epistles), and probably never studied even one of them carefully..
I get that. Your husband's faith is his and as much as he might like he cannot impart that to you (although the covenant of marriage sort of comes pretty close according to is a verse about a husband sanctifying an unbelieving wife so that their children are regarded holy), as also the reverse is true, that is neither can you impose your beliefs onto your husband. Although the book of John spoke to me regarding the person of Christ, it was through Isaiah that I finally understood Who He Is, without further doubt. I mean, with John, I saw Him as God, but not without thinking He must be a might mousy but it was Isaiah that revealed the mighty mouse (for lack of a better and more fitting analogy atm). I view the Christ as the mediator b/w the Tanakh and the (Brit Chadash? I'm not so deeply learned in regard to the Messianic Jewish culture). That is, we (referring to mankind in general) assaulted the perfection of the law, being with so much fault, and the law likewise assaults us in the reflection of our many faults, and the result is that neither is ultimately upheld and so is destined to ultimate destruction consider there is none left to uphold either end...but then entered the Christ, the Messiah.
However, if I understand correctly, Judaism regards the Messiah to be no more than a wise, albeit very enlightened man, which in my view doesn't really set him apart from Buddha.
Judaism is older so I guess you'll be converting soon. "You can't see what I see therefore you're biased" is not much of an argument.
- Status