The Trinity

[Kroogz]

I am thinking here if we were discussing the Verse, Jesus wept, there would be 20 interpretations under the false definition of Rightly Dividing.

John11:26~~NASB
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

You believe they are saved. But which part, if any, do You disagree about then? Do You agree that it's impossible for them to reestablish repentance like the Verse claims or something else?

I believe it's 2 fold.

They are already saved. So it is impossible to go back and crucify Christ again for their salvation. It's already been done. It's not the interpretation I would stand on, but it's reasonable. Christ died once for all.

These were Jewish believers that just had the milk(babes in Christ.) The Jews convinced them to go back to the rituals and laws for their salvation. They should have been teachers by now, but they need the elementary principles all over again.

So someone(man) is teaching/instructing them again. And when a believer backslides to the point that they are no longer teachable, it is IMPOSSIBLE for man to bring them back to fellowship with God. But with God it is possible. His divine discipline.

Heb 5:12~~For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 6:3~~And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


Luke 18:27
27 But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”


“You have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6 for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives’” (Heb 12:5-6).

It is impossible for you or I to teach each other in order to change our minds on this issue. But it's not impossible with God.

 

[Fundaamental]

Why quote me then? You clearly are making a spectacle of yourself. Generating hypothesis and calling people someone else. If a sinner was reading this, why would they think that your example is Godly?

same old double standard, and abusive comments I hope the mods realise who you are soon.

 

[uncle_mike]

John11:26~~NASB
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”


I believe it's 2 fold.

They are already saved. So it is impossible to go back and crucify Christ again for their salvation. It's already been done. It's not the interpretation I would stand on, but it's reasonable. Christ died once for all.

These were Jewish believers that just had the milk(babes in Christ.) The Jews convinced them to go back to the rituals and laws for their salvation. They should have been teachers by now, but they need the elementary principles all over again.

So someone(man) is teaching/instructing them again. And when a believer backslides to the point that they are no longer teachable, it is IMPOSSIBLE for man to bring them back to fellowship with God. But with God it is possible. His divine discipline.

Heb 5:12~~For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 6:3~~And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


Luke 18:27
27 But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”


“You have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6 for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives’” (Heb 12:5-6).

It is impossible for you or I to teach each other in order to change our minds on this issue. But it's not impossible with God.

I believe in Eternal Security. I just believe the process is Jesus speaks, we hear, it's clearly a command because we then follow and have the eternal life promise. But, I also believe in Hebrews where those who were saved are now in the condition of those Verses.

 

[uncle_mike]

same old double standard, and abusive comments I hope the mods realise who you are soon.

I hope they are watching because your example is one that shows what kinds of people are on this site.

 

[Cameron143]

I only see You establishing Your opinion. I presented the Verses and since then You have given Your personal opinion.

Romans 8 is not my opinion. Neither is what I shared. It is my understanding of scripture. Again, you are not under any obligation to respond. But if you argue that those were saved people described in Hebrews, you should at least be able to explain what it is that can separate us from the love of God in Christ. Otherwise, your own understanding of scripture is in conflict.
But I do appreciate the conversation. Grace and peace.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I know, and you know when you have sinned because in the Believer when we do that, it GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF we ingore that we have serious issues with our walk and claim to name Christ as Lord.

And, lest we forget this also, for Unfaithful [ but Eternal ] members of The Body?:

"Quench not the Spirit" (1 Thessalonians 5:19)​

​

Are "quenchers" then lost, losing 'temporary' salvation? (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)?

​

Amen.

I'm trying to establish a truth, before going into the verses in Hebrews. There are many verses in scripture that on their face seem to contradict one another.

Is not 'Right Division' then the only Correct method to solve the
Confusion of the seeming [ on the face ] contradictions? kinda like this?:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 Luk_3:3, 24:47}
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(Jam 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23):

"faith PLUS works!" (James and Hebrews to "the twelve tribes"!)

earthly prophecy/LAW/covenants ( Previous dispensation of God... )

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!" (online)

Glorified Christ, From Heaven, To ONE apostle and His 'ONE Body,' Under Grace /
Mystery ( Current Dispensation of God ):

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!"):

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, ↑ repentance​

toward God, and ↓ faith toward our LORD Jesus Christ." (Acts 20:21)​

2) believe (with ALL the heart, trust, place 100% faith in) The Gospel Of The
Grace Of God:

"For I delivered unto you first of all That Which I also received, how​

That Christ Died for our sins According To The Scriptures; And That​

He Was Buried, and that He Rose Again the third day According To​

The Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)​

​

3) "By Grace Are ye Saved Through faith..." Apart from All works!!:

Plus Nothing!:

"...and That not of yourselves: It Is The Gift Of God: Not​

of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

Plus Nothing, Confirmed!:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According ​

To His Mercy He Saved us, By The Washing of Regeneration, and​

Renewing of The Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5)​

​

Plus Nothing, Further Confirmed!:

"Who Hath Saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according​

to our works, but According To His Own Purpose And Grace, Which Was​

Given us In Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9)​

​

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ The LORD ( With Grace And Mercy!!! ) Is All we need Today to Be
Eternally Saved!! Amen?
------------------------
The Only other method would be to DELETE Paul's Mystery from Scriptures,
Correct?

Amen. cc: @uncle_mike?

 

[Cameron143]

I believe in Eternal Security. I just believe the process is Jesus speaks, we hear, it's clearly a command because we then follow and have the eternal life promise. But, I also believe in Hebrews where those who were saved are now in the condition of those Verses.

How are these 2 things not in conflict?

 

[Kroogz]

I believe in Eternal Security. I just believe the process is Jesus speaks, we hear, it's clearly a command because we then follow and have the eternal life promise. But, I also believe in Hebrews where those who were saved are now in the condition of those Verses.

And if they don't come out of it:
Heb 6:8~~New American Standard Bible
but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.

 

[uncle_mike]

How are these 2 things not in conflict?

They are not. We followed to begin with and was given our promise. Hebrews shows them no longer following.

 

[Cameron143]

And, lest we forget this also, for Unfaithful [ but Eternal ] members of The Body?:

"Quench not the Spirit" (1 Thessalonians 5:19)​

​

Are "quenchers" then lost, losing 'temporary' salvation? (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)?

​

Amen.

Is not 'Right Division' then the only Correct method to solve the
Confusion of the seeming [ on the face ] contradictions? kinda like this?:

Humble Christ, on the earth, To Israel, 12 apostles, Under The Law/covenants
/Prophecy:

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!") or perish
(Luk 13:3,5 Mar 1:4 Luk_3:3, 24:47}
+
2) believe the gospel of the kingdom (Mat 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mar 1:14,15)
+
3) be baptized "For the remission of sin" (Mar 1:4 Luk 3:3, 7:29:30, 24:47;
Act 2:38)
+
4) "show works meet for repentance" (Mat 3:8), because,
+
5) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(Jam 1:1, 2:17,26)
+
6) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Mat 19:17)
+
7) "one thing thou lackest...sell ALL/take up cross/follow Jesus"
(Mar 10:17-23):

"faith PLUS works!" (James and Hebrews to "the twelve tribes"!)

earthly prophecy/LAW/covenants ( Previous dispensation of God... )

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!" (online)

Glorified Christ, From Heaven, To ONE apostle and His 'ONE Body,' Under Grace /
Mystery ( Current Dispensation of God ):

1) Repent (change mind about sin/agree With God "it is Wrong!"):

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, ↑ repentance toward God,
and ↓ faith toward our LORD Jesus Christ." (Acts 20:21)

2) believe (with ALL the heart, trust, place 100% faith in) The Gospel Of The
Grace Of God:

"For I delivered unto you first of all That Which I also received, how​

That Christ Died for our sins According To The Scriptures; And That​

He Was Buried, and that He Rose Again the third day According To​

The Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)​

​

3) "By Grace Are ye Saved Through faith..." Apart from All works!!:

Plus Nothing!:

"...and That not of yourselves: It Is The Gift Of God: Not
of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Plus Nothing, Confirmed!:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According ​

To His Mercy He Saved us, By The Washing of Regeneration, and​

Renewing of The Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5)​

​

Plus Nothing, Further Confirmed!:

"Who Hath Saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according​

to our works, but According To His Own Purpose And Grace, Which Was​

Given us In Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9)​

​

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ The LORD ( With Grace And Mercy!!! ) Is All we need Today to Be
Eternally Saved!! Amen?
------------------------
The Only other method would be to DELETE Paul's Mystery from Scriptures,
Correct?

Amen. cc: @uncle_mike?

View attachment 258898

I struggle here to understand what you are meaning for me to understand. Can you put it forth in a couple of sentences or a paragraph?

 

[uncle_mike]

And if they don't come out of it:
Heb 6:8~~New American Standard Bible
but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.

ESV is known to be more authentic so I use it.

 

[Fundaamental]

I hope they are watching because your example is one that shows what kinds of people are on this site.

well you only joined on Thursday, so far you have called many Christians names here, you've been very argumentive and engaged in arguments insulting Christians and calling them false.

But not only that you deliberately now set about arguing with a member, where by someone with your exact same personality was banned after lengthy discussion with the same person.

Yup that's right watchers why don't you tell us who you really are, Mr so called good Christian.

Your attitude for a new member is one clearly the same as someone who has come here with an agenda.

Anyway I'm putting you ignor as I don't want to read your abuse, deception and lies anymore or see your appealing reassuring name of uncle Mike that is only a false good like your previous name the watchers.

Your an out right fraud that doesn't belong here

 

[Kroogz]

How are these 2 things not in conflict?

Hi Cameron. You have a solid understanding of eternal security judging by your posts. So we can't use these verses as loss of salvation(because there is none.) We both know that. I am just curious, from your studies, how did you come to the conclusion that these were not saved individuals? I am just wondering if I have overlooked something, and would like your perspective.

Thank you sir.

 

[Cameron143]

is the hebrews verse in discussion about the verse that says it' impossible to bring them back to repentance ?

I'm guessing it is because that one is always brought up by the cherry pickers

The verses here do seem on their face to teach a believer can lose their salvation. But this is not what is being taught.
I have no problem explaining the verses, but if someone believes there is no security in Christ, they will simply reject the explanation. It won't agree with what they believe. Unless their underlying belief is considered, all the explanations in the world won't make a difference.
I find it helpful when I am opened up within my own assumptions. Others might too.

 

[uncle_mike]

well you only joined on Thursday, so far you have called many Christians names here, you've been very argumentive and engaged in arguments insulting Christians and calling them false.

But not only that you deliberately now set about arguing with a member, where by someone with your exact same personality was banned after lengthy discussion with the same person.

Yup that's right watchers why don't you tell us who you really are, Mr so called good Christian.

Your attitude for a new member is one clearly the same as someone who has come here with an agenda.

Anyway I'm putting you ignor as I don't want to read your abuse, deception and lies anymore or see your appealing reassuring name of uncle Mike that is only a false good like your previous name the watchers.

Your an out right fraud that doesn't belong here

I called people names? Can You show me? Can You also show me where I am arguing? As a Police Officer, we make sure to know what we're talking about before making wild accusations. So please show me proof of Your accusations.

 

[Kroogz]

ESV is known to be more authentic so I use it.

Heb 6:8~~English Standard Version
But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

1 Cor 3:15~~English Standard Version
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[uncle_mike]

Heb 6:8~~English Standard Version
But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

1 Cor 3:15~~English Standard Version
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

What do those have to do with Jesus spoke, we heard and followed? I thought that was what was in conflict here. Not works.

 

[uncle_mike]

Fundaamental, Let me say it this way. If You do not show proof of what You accuse me of, I will personally request you be moved from here.

 

[uncle_mike]

To everyone else, I apologize. I came here to discuss the Bible and feel like Paul with the demon possessed girl aggravating him every chance she got. I asked for proof and he continued to accuse me. I think I have had enough and want proof.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi Cameron. You have a solid understanding of eternal security judging by your posts. So we can't use these verses as loss of salvation(because there is none.) We both know that. I am just curious, from your studies, how did you come to the conclusion that these were not saved individuals? I am just wondering if I have overlooked something, and would like your perspective.

Thank you sir.

Your words are very kind.
The reasoning is simple: either eternal security is true or it is not. If it is, and I do believe it is, then these individuals could not have been saved and lost their salvation. Clearly, to me, the description is of lost individuals. Since I don't believe lost people were ever saved, they can't ever have been saved.
Understanding the verses in Hebrews must begin with this truth. Then it's just a matter of prayer and study. There are some very good commentaries available as well.
If you are asking for me to go through verse by verse I can give you a basic summary, but would need to actually do some study and research to give you a deeper explanation. There are a fair number of people on this site who have exegeted the verses and could do so now. My previous study was simply for my own benefit and I was only concerned to reconcile the verses with other verses.