Orthodox Jew answers a few questions
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I'm not trying to be difficult but I really would rather you just make your point. Genesis 1:! and 1:2 is the creation account which is pretty cut and dry. It isn't a bunch of allusions and symbolism that would lend towards "interpretation".
2 Cor. 3:12-16 (ESV)
12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
I don't care what the New Testament says. If what he says is correct it should be demonstrable in Isaiah.
I understand.
I hope that you can also understand that Christians believe that this Scripture is as inspired by God as anything in the Old Testament and/or Tanakh.
It is quite intriguing how Isaiah 53 describes the "Right Arm," the Messiah, as being lowly, tortured, and one of suffering. But nowhere in the Old Testament is there a "warning" that Israel would be blinded to it. And still, Paul, writes that God blinded the Jews. Odd to have fulfillment without first being prophesied.
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The Torah was given to Moses by G-d on mount Sinai. All other scripture must conform to it (The Talmud, the Nevi'im, the Ketuvim etc...). All are scripture but only the Torah was directly written by G-d's hand.
Doesn't Jesus quote Isaiah 6 in Matthew 13 as the reason the unbelieving do not understand the parables? It doesn't mention a veil, but the veil in 2 Corinthians 3 was symbolic of spiritual blindness.
I'm not interested in what apostates think either. If it means Jesus then feel free to demonstrate that fact.
It isn't. It's about Jesus. Chapter 54 goes on to describe the benefits that result from His suffering. Chapter 55 is a call to come into relationship. And chapter 56 explains how.
That's totally fine.
I'm the one you're trying to convince here and I don't accept Christian scriptures. If what you claim is true it should be demonstrable from the Tanakh. I will never ever accept a theological position that says G-D has altered, changed or gone back on his word.
Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
So if the he here is Israel, whose griefs and sorrows has Israel borne? Is Isaiah saying that Israel was stricken to save the world?
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
So Israel was wounded for our transgressions? When Israel suffers we are healed?
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
So is this a reference to the nations that they have all gone astray like sheep and all their transgressions have been put onto Israel?
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Israel as a nation has been dumb?
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
To say that this is about Israel has got to be the most narcissitic view imaginable. Do they really think that of all people on earth they alone are sinless, that they alone suffer and it is for the transgressions of all the sinners?
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Please, I support Israel, I believe they have a covenant with God, but "no deceit in their mouth"? Come on. "They have done no violence"! This is balderdash.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
You have to be in complete darkness to think this can refer to anyone but Jesus. "My righteous servant" does Israel really feel that is a reference to them? They have been made "an offering for sin"! Once you deny that Jesus is the Messiah this is where it leads, self exaltation and self deception.
So just Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, but not the prophets or poetic books?
LoL... that's kinda' funny, but I don't wish to offend.
Why would you be interested in what a Christian might think, but not an "apostate"?
Aviva, I'm not trying to convince of a thing. I just posted a Scripture reference that I thought you had been asking for a while now, but I was mistaken because you wanted it out of the Tanakh.
Then I posted what Jews think about Isiah 53, and you call them apostate and not worth your time.
Okay...
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