Sunday Worship?

[TMS]

Yeah, I've run across numerous people that believe Jesus totally forgot to teach that we all need to keep the Sunday sabbath just like we are to be under the law of Moses and forsake the New Covenant.

This is what the judaizers taught as they bewitched (used witchcraft / rebellion) on the Galatians causing them to go back to the Law of Moses.

This caused them to fall from grace and caused what Jesus did yo be of no effect for them.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Folks falling for this trick of the devil... are back on the highway to hell!

View attachment 258753

It isn't about being justified by the law.

It is very clear that we are not saved by works, we are not saved by keeping the Law.
It only takes one sin and we are guilty. If we sin once justice requires eternal death.
So we have no hope of working our way to heaven. We need the righteousness of Jesus to cover us.. by faith we are saved.

But do we as children of God continue to sin? Do we continue to live the same life of disobedience. Or do we obey of Lord because we love Him and want to be like Him?

Keeping the Sabbath is good because God said we should. It has been a blessing in my life.

 

[TMS]

it is Salvation Himself which set us free from the Law. no "if"

Romans 7 is clear, and it gives the ten commandments as an example of 'the Law' so no one may argue it isn't part of the Law.

so, seeing that we are free, how shall He fail to save us?
He will not - we are free indeed, saved indeed: God is good and Salvation is real

Sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin = death.

Did Jesus remove the law or free us from the penalty of the law?

If the law could have been removed why did Jesus need to die?

Am I free to transgress the law?

 

[TMS]

categorically false, but a weirdly common mistake.

easily disproven by the same verse you suppose to prove your fallacy:

Romans 5:13​

For until the law sin was in the world​

QED
the Word needs nothing added; it's clear:
sin exists with or without law.
the purpose of the law isn't "to make sin exist" i.e. the Law does not 'create sin' as your position blasphemously implies.

Please don't take it out of context.
Rom 5:13-14
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:19-21
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Disobedience to what?
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 3:19 KJV Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Remember there are moral and ceremonial laws.
The Holy Sabbath was from creation.

Was there a time since the start were it was okay to lie, steal, murder, take God's name in vain or have other god's before the Lord our God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
1Ti 1:8-9
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[TMS]

the Law does not 'create sin' as your position blasphemously implies

The Law is Holy and Just and Good....
It does not create sin... I have never said that.
The law reveals sin, it shows us what is right and wrong.

Like a law today that tells us the speed limit. If you know what the law states you can choose (human choice) if you obey or disobey the law.

 

[ewq1938]

Why was it a curse?
If all of us obeyed the law perfectly... what a beautiful place it would be.

But man couldn't do that so the law was a curse to those who broke it. It was also complex and difficult to have sins forgiven. It took lots of people, animals and everything and it wasn't done very often. People lived with unforgiven sin for long periods of time even if they wanted to be forgiven.

If it was replaced how is the new law less of a curse?

Forgiveness of sin is fast and easy now. It doesn't take Priests or a temple or animal blood and can be done daily, even multiple times a day. It's vastly better.

 

[TMS]

The Law does not create sin. that is a ridiculous position. it's frankly stupid.

sin exists before Adam, but the Law doesn't exist until Moses.

The Law makes sin all the more sinful by fully explaining and exposing it.

How can you say the law doesn't exist until Moses? When we are talking about the 10 moral principles that God wrote in stone when the time was right. not the laws that Moses wrote many years after the fall of Adam.
The law does fully expose it and as time went on God needed to remind us what sin was.
But sin started in heaven and the was "coveting".

Sin is a choice we make.. the law shows if our choice was sinful or not.

No law = no sin

The law defines sin and if God has no standard of sin He can't be held guilty of sin.

For example no speed limit laws in place = not guilty of speeding, it is not a transgression of the law to speed.

 

[TMS]

But man couldn't do that so the law was a curse to those who broke it. It was also complex and difficult to have sins forgiven. It took lots of people, animals and everything and it wasn't done very often. People lived with unforgiven sin for long periods of time even if they wanted to be forgiven.



Forgiveness of sin is fast and easy now. It doesn't take Priests or a temple or animal blood and can be done daily, even multiple times a day. It's vastly better.

I agree that the cerimonial laws are nailed to the cross and contained curses.
But the 10 commandments have not changed. The laws today that define sin are holy just and Good.
The Sabbath is one of those laws.

God made it Holy at creation and set it aside. God said remember it.
Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath,
No where in the bible are we told to not keep the sabbath.

We are told the law contained in ordinances was to pass away. But the law that God wrote was perfect and Jesus said it would not pass away.
Mat 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Dino246]

Why was it a curse?
If all of us obeyed the law perfectly... what a beautiful place it would be.
If it was replaced how is the new law less of a curse?

“Obey the law perfectly? Perhaps you are not sufficiently familiar with the law, which requires regular sacrifices for sin. The law assumes the impossibility of remaining sinless.

 

[Dino246]

I agree that the cerimonial laws are nailed to the cross and contained curses

Which passage in Scripture tells us which ‘laws’ are ceremonial and which aren’t?

 

[posthuman]

Sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin = death.

Did Jesus remove the law or free us from the penalty of the law?

If the law could have been removed why did Jesus need to die?

Am I free to transgress the law?

sin is more than transgression of the Law. that is not an exclusive definition. sin exists without the law, see Romans 5, QED.

with regard to the rest of this post:

Have you read Romans 6-8, yes or no?

If you have, why are you asking these questions? did you not understand what you read? these are nonsense questions.
the Law has no jurisdiction over the dead. hence the dead are free, hidden in Christ.

If you have not, then go read them now.

 

[ewq1938]

I agree that the cerimonial laws are nailed to the cross and contained curses.
But the 10 commandments have not changed.

They have changed and were nailed to the cross as well. Many of them are part of the new covenant law but not the 4th commandment. Christ is our Sabbath rest now, and we can work on any day we choose.

The laws today that define sin are holy just and Good.
The Sabbath is one of those laws.

It is not and does not define sin.

God made it Holy at creation and set it aside. God said remember it.
Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath,
No where in the bible are we told to not keep the sabbath.

Jesus broke the Sabbath for righteous reasons and that was when the sabbath was law. It is no longer law, being fulfilled and nailed to the cross.

We are told the law contained in ordinances was to pass away. But the law that God wrote was perfect and Jesus said it would not pass away.
Mat 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[

All was fulfilled and the entire law passed at that time (the cross).

 

[posthuman]

How can you say the law doesn't exist until Moses?

Romans 5 speaks of a time before the Law, Galatians 3 specifies the Law didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham, and frankly Exodus is literally a record of its being given for the first time, affirmed by John 1.

so how can you say otherwise?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Romans 5 speaks of a time before the Law, Galatians 3 specifies the Law didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham, and frankly Exodus is literally a record of its being given for the first time, affirmed by John 1.

so how can you say otherwise?

Hi there- hope you don't mind if I chime in....

Galatians 3 the law that was added because of transgression is not the law that is transgression when broken the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

We need to look at the context in order to determine the law that is being referred to as there are many laws in scripture.

We are told where there is no law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 Sin is the transgression of the law and Jesus and Paul in the NC points directly to the Ten Commandments to the law that defines sin Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

So the law that defines sin when broken can't be the same law that was added because of sin. Lucifer sinned in heaven 1 John 3:8 therefore He broke God's law. God has a law in heaven and the earthy temple was patterned after God's heavenly Temple Heb 8:1-5 where it is revealed the Ten Commandments Rev 11:19 that God personally wrote and personally spoke Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

The law of Moses which contained the ordinances for animal sacrifices was added because of sin (breaking the Ten Commandments) and was always just a place holder until the Seed shall come pointing forward to Jesus as the blood of animals is not perfect for cleansing sins Heb 10:1-22 but the blood of Christ is perfect for cleansing us of all sin and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 when we confess repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and sanctification.

All the Ten Commandments do is show us our sin Romans 3:20 and show our need for Jesus and His righteousness to cover us when we have a change of heart and repent and turn from sin. If we cover our sins, we can't prosper by going to Jesus confessing so we can receive His mercy and grace and sanctification. Proverbs 28:13

God bless!

 

[posthuman]

Hi there- hope you don't mind if I chime in....

Galatians 3 the law that was added because of transgression is not the law that is transgression when broken the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

We need to look at the context in order to determine the law that is being referred to as there are many laws in scripture.

We are told where there is no law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 Sin is the transgression of the law and Jesus and Paul in the NC points directly to the Ten Commandments to the law that defines sin Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

So the law that defines sin when broken can't be the same law that was added because of sin. Lucifer sinned in heaven 1 John 3:8 therefore He broke God's law. God has a law in heaven and the earthy temple was patterned after God's heavenly Temple Heb 8:1-5 where it is revealed the Ten Commandments Rev 11:19 that God personally wrote and personally spoke Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

The law of Moses which contained the ordinances for animal sacrifices was added because of sin (breaking the Ten Commandments) and was always just a place holder until the Seed shall come pointing forward to Jesus as the blood of animals is not perfect for cleansing sins Heb 10:1-22 but the blood of Christ is perfect for cleansing us of all sin and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 when we confess repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness and sanctification.

All the Ten Commandments do is show us our sin Romans 3:20 and show our need for Jesus and His righteousness to cover us when we have a change of heart and repent and turn from sin. If we cover our sins, we can't prosper by going to Jesus confessing so we can receive His mercy and grace and sanctification. Proverbs 28:13

God bless!

the sabbath was added in Exodus 16 after they transgressed the word of faith in Exodus 14.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

the sabbath was added in Exodus 16 after they transgressed the word of faith in Exodus 14.

Not according to God's own Word that He wrote and He spoke.

God said the Sabbath started at Creation.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath Mark 2:27 man came first Gen 1:26 than the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3. God made man in the image of God to follow Him, God hallowed the Sabbath, made for mankind to bless and sanctify as man can't sanctify themselves, only God can. Eze 20:12 God is trying to recreate us in His image and His holy law reflects His holy character, when we reject this by default we take on the image of the other spirit. I'm not sure why people are so against the Sabbath day, God just wants to spend time with His children on the day He set aside sanctified to spend holy time with us.

 

[posthuman]

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

this doesn't say anything about being commanded to mankind to ceremonially observe as law.

that is never found until Exodus 16, given as a commandment as a proof of the disobedience of the people, after their transgression of unbelief.

 

[posthuman]

God just wants to spend time with His children

has He not said He will never leave nor forsake us?

Psalms 46:1​

God is our hope and strength, and helpe in troubles, ready to be found.​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

this doesn't say anything about being commanded to mankind to ceremonially observe as law.

that is never found until Exodus 16, given as a commandment as a proof of the disobedience of the people, after their transgression of unbelief.

Now you're making a different argument. You said the Sabbath didn't start until Exo 16 and through God's Word He shows us it started at Creation. God made man in His image to follow Him are you going to suggest that Adam and Eve rebelled against God the day after they were created and instead of spending time with God on His holy and blessed day that Jesus said was made for them Mark 2:27 they said no thanks, I am going to do my own thing instead. The Sabbath is about a relationship with God, it shows we worship the God of Creation Eze 20:20 the only God that has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12

 

[SabbathBlessing]

has He not said He will never leave nor forsake us?

Psalms 46:1​

God is our hope and strength, and helpe in troubles, ready to be found.​

He doesn't, we forsake Him when we do our own thing instead of having faith to do what He asks and trust what He is asking is because its for our own good.

 

[Aaron56]

Hi there- snip

Some of your facts are wrong.

The Law (which includes the 10 Commandments) was a covenant given to Moses and all who were at Sinai only. This is what Moses said and wrote:

"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive."

But, the covenant between God the Father and God the Son was ratified before creation.

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The promises of this covenant began to vest with Abraham 430 years before the Law was given.

"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later...

Later than what? Later than the promises that were given to Abraham. Those promises were given to Abraham first, before the law.

Let's continue...

"..cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ..."

When was it confirmed? From the foundation of the world as I quoted above. The price of the covenant between God the Father and God the Son was paid "from the foundation of the world". THEN, everything that was made was made through Christ. All of creation contains the divine template for death, resurrection, and redemption. Every kernel of wheat, corn, and any grain we consume bears this template.

Jesus summed up the covenant in this way:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."

This is redemption through death and resurrection.

Let's continue...

"..that it should make the promise of no effect."

So, the Law, given 430 years AFTER the promises vested in Abraham, has no effect on those promises. None. In fact, the Law was never given to Abraham. He functioned under the covenant between God the Father and God the Son that was ratified BEFORE creation was made. Christ is the means back to THIS covenant. And this covenant does not require the strength of man to remain whole: it is kept by God the Father and God the Son.

This is what Paul meant when he wrote the next verse:

"For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

Furthermore:

Also, the Law was added because of transgressions. The transgressions occurred at Sinai 430 years after the promises were given to Abraham. When God instructed the Jews at Sinai to “come close” they, instead, “stood afar off” and sent Moses in their stead. This is the pattern of priest/laity that God gave them in the Law. However, had they drawn close to God, they would have become “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”. Under the Law only one tribe of 12 were allowed to be priests. Under the covenant between God the Son and God the Father, ALL become priests and a holy nation.

Under the Law the priests represent the people before God. Under the covenant ratified by God the Son and God the Father, the priests represent God to the world.

Go under the Law at your own peril. God is not working there any more. You will be alone.