Daniel 9 Already Fulfilled
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^ @rrcn, "Wiaod?"
"abomination of desolation" - Matthew 24:15/Mark 13:14 Jesus had spoken of;
see also:
-- Daniel 11:31 [during the era of Antiochus 4 Epiphanes, approx. 165bc] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb95/dan/11/1/s_861001 [scroll down to see v.31]
[and]
-- Daniel 12:11 [far-future, and distinct from that of the one in Dan11:31] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb95/dan/12/1/s_862001 [scroll down to see v.11]--the one Jesus had been referencing
Hope that helps. = ) Thanks for asking.
"abomination of desolation" - Matthew 24:15/Mark 13:14 Jesus had spoken of;
see also:
-- Daniel 11:31 [during the era of Antiochus 4 Epiphanes, approx. 165bc] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb95/dan/11/1/s_861001 [scroll down to see v.31]
[and]
-- Daniel 12:11 [far-future, and distinct from that of the one in Dan11:31] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb95/dan/12/1/s_862001 [scroll down to see v.11]--the one Jesus had been referencing
Hope that helps. = ) Thanks for asking.
I have heard different views on the great tribulation... people seem to be discussing some of them, here in this thread.
The three views, that I've heard the most are:
- Some say that it's an age long time of suffering of the Jews that basically started around 70AD.
-Some say that it comes as a future event, after the rapture of the church, and lasts for 7 years.
-Others say that it starts 3.5 years after the rapture
All camps have Scripture that they say support their view. Also, I have heard that there are a few more views, (within mainstream Christianity), but I can't remember them.
In a discussion of end-times events, it usually means "abomination of desolation", as it does here. However, in a different context it could mean "Ancient of Days".
It is curious that after Jesus says, "standing in the holy place", He (or the authors) adds, "Let the reader understand" (written in parentheses in English). That suggests there is something unusual about the preceding statement, that it is not "plain for all to comprehend". The phrase could refer to "the abomination of desolation", "the holy place", or perhaps the whole phrase, where "standing in" is the key object. In any case, we would do well not to impose the obvious interpretation to this phrase, and to hold lightly whatever interpretation we do hold. Luke does not include this statement, but his "condition" is plain and obvious.
Sorry, But the AoD in matt is a future one. not a past one.
so it can not be one that occured before christ.
And yes, there is one in Dan 9
There was no AOD in 70 ad. even you admit that it occurred before Christ.All three accounts of the Olivet Discourse are referring to the same thing - the same event circa 70 A.D.
BTW - it is not the return of Christ that cuts the 'Great Tribulation' short - it is the arrival of the Two Witnesses...
so your reasoning is falling apart.
And your wrong about the two witnesses, they do not cut it short. it continues even after they left.
Jesus said immediately after tribulation he will return. It is cut short. because he destroys Rome and his enemies. and puts an end to the great war.
And thats all your going to say. Not tell me what it actually says and what bible version I should use?
Let the reader understand.
when you see this take place.
How could all of jerusalem see this take place?
In 70 AD. no way
Today, we not only have the means, we have the means of showing the Whole world when this will take place (it will be a public event)
I see there is no point in exploring possibilities with you; your mind is shut.
You could give me possibilities
I know you have tried. But I do not see them fit.
and explain why I do not see them fit.
So really, whose mind is shut?
The "obvious" interpretation -- in view of what Christ says immediately after that -- is that the Abomination of Desolation will stand in the Holy Place of a FUTURE TEMPLE in Jerusalem (since He had already prophesied about the destruction of the existing temple). Then He tied in the Great Tribulation to this event. Which means that Christ Himself indicated (indirectly) that there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel.
In my original post where I'd written "AOD" (the post right before his question), I had actually included a couple of Scripture references where the phrase I'm referring to is found:
One could simply look up the scripture references, to see that it is "abomination of desolation" referred to in my post, rather than "Ancient of Days" in this case.
Post #140 - https://christianchat.com/threads/daniel-9-already-fulfilled.213321/post-5203165
But I realize it is rare that people take the time to look up the supplied scripture references presented in a post (but I was fairly confident that GaryA--who I was addressing in particular, on his particular point--would understand the abbreviation, so I chose to save my fingers on that long-typing-post... again, I'm slow at typing, and wish it wasn't so, lol)
[on another note: as to the reason "let him that readeth understand" is used in the text of Matt24 and Mk13, I think I had perhaps mentioned in an earlier post the reason I believe that is... and that is, because "AOD" is used several times in Daniel, but Jesus is drawing attention to the only one that could be meant... and it can't mean the one in Daniel 11:31 (re: Antiochus 4 Epiphanes's era-165bc). This leaves the "singular, singular" one in Dan12:11;
and besides this, is the timing clues supplied in that chapter (12:1,6-7), which, like the similar wording found in Rev12:14 (a time, times, and half a time) cannot mean "near-2000-years" (as the Historicist viewpoint suggests) because Rev12 fits within the "things which must come to pass in quickness [noun]" time period that 1:1/1:19c/4:1 shows to start (unfolding upon the earth) at Seal #1 (chpt 4:1 onward to Rev19, His return to the earth); which also agrees with the similar "time, times, and the dividing of time" used in Dan7:25 speaking of "and they shall be given into his hand until..." that length/duration of time--again, not speaking of some near-2000-yrs amount of time ("given into his hand"); Dan12:1,6-7 is phrased even more specifically / pin-pointedly--IOW, not just any random set of 1260 days, but very particular...]
Guess again...
Show me where it says this and I will show you why you are wrong...
Sorry - I was in a hurry to get off of CC last night - I had some IRL things to do...
I highly recommend the King James Version.
Yes way - when Jerusalem was being surrounded by armies...
(in 67 A.D. - right before all of the Christians headed for/to the mountains)
But, that is the problem - you can't just give something 5 seconds worth of thought and then shoot it down - you have to seriously consider all that is presented to you (which cannot be done in a few minutes or a few posts) long enough for/until it makes sense.
You will not listen long enough...
yours
Why do you keep making comments, yet never prove your point scriptural?
Am I supposed to guess what your thinking? If it was in the word. I would probably have seen it
Matt 24: 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory
And as I understand it, the phrase "And then [kai tote]" never carries the meaning of a lengthy period of time, but more like (as we would say today) "and consequently" or "and following on the heels of that, _____ [this and such]"
--Matt24:[29,]30(2x);
--Mk13:[24-25,]26,27
[see also its use in 2Th2:7b-8a, for example]