Orthodox Jew answers a few questions
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Hmm... in Isaiah he says: I am YHVH; and there is no savior besides me. Nevertheless; we could go on forever with my questions and assertions... that's not fun: so I'll just ask one question for now that shouldn't come off as too pointed.
At the end of Ezra-Nehemiah we have Zerubbabel inspecting the city and historically we know that it didn't get much better from there. The next generations that would become the Sadducees/Pharisees et. al. obviously did not please God; and as prophesied, Israel did not nationally see it's savior and got their butts kicked.
What I want to know is- what God showed Ezekiel (ezek40) to show to Zerubbabel's generation: Do you believe that the historic second temple period was a fulfilment of Ezek.40?; and IF NOT- do you still believe that God wants you to consider the temple's plan and its dimensions? And IF SO, how specifically (if you don't mind) is that done?
At the end of Ezra-Nehemiah we have Zerubbabel inspecting the city and historically we know that it didn't get much better from there. The next generations that would become the Sadducees/Pharisees et. al. obviously did not please God; and as prophesied, Israel did not nationally see it's savior and got their butts kicked.
What I want to know is- what God showed Ezekiel (ezek40) to show to Zerubbabel's generation: Do you believe that the historic second temple period was a fulfilment of Ezek.40?; and IF NOT- do you still believe that God wants you to consider the temple's plan and its dimensions? And IF SO, how specifically (if you don't mind) is that done?
Dude, it's like talking to an alien who's just figuring out how human interaction works. How about filling me in instead of giving me just the conclusion as if I should just know what you're referring to. If you can't have the simple respect to explain yourself then don't waste my time.
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Okay so you've inserted something as if it was an agreed upon fact when it is not. So by doing this you have set up a question built on a faulty premise that negates any answering.
What prophecy? The temple was not built entirely to G-d's specifications as revealed to Ezekiel. Where is the dispute in this? The temple will not be rebuilt until the Messiah returns so it's a moot issue.
What prophecy? The temple was not built entirely to G-d's specifications as revealed to Ezekiel. Where is the dispute in this? The temple will not be rebuilt until the Messiah returns so it's a moot issue.
Okay I meant no disrespect? Toledot, Ortodox Judaism101? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot
There was no question in that part to which this was a response; no do I imply that there is an agreed upon fact- in fact; I assume that we do not agree. Which I why I said it would be no fun.
On this we agree!
There is plenty of dispute in this, but not between you and I at this point.
Excuse me.
A moot issue?
Did he say "wait for the messiah, then consider the plan"?
On this we agree!
There is plenty of dispute in this, but not between you and I at this point.
Excuse me.
A moot issue?
Did he say "wait for the messiah, then consider the plan"?
Anyone could have written this after a 5 minute google search of the internet. Simply plug in those questions and these answers pop up.
I have asked 5 questions concerning what Orthodox Jews think and Aviva has avoided, ignored and not responded to one of them.
I lived in NYC which is the most Jewish city in the US and is frequently compared to Israel. In the community I lived in I lived on one side of a cemetery and an Orthodox Jewish community was on the other side of the same cemetery with about 20 homes and they handled funerals as well as had some very notable Jews buried in that cemetery.
Half of my family is Jewish and I grew up with my best friend being Jewish and attended his synagogue.
This person Aviva appears to be very arrogant as though only she knows what the Orthodox Jews think and yet all the evidence we have is what anyone doing a 5 minute google search could have come up with.
I have asked 5 questions concerning what Orthodox Jews think and Aviva has avoided, ignored and not responded to one of them.
I lived in NYC which is the most Jewish city in the US and is frequently compared to Israel. In the community I lived in I lived on one side of a cemetery and an Orthodox Jewish community was on the other side of the same cemetery with about 20 homes and they handled funerals as well as had some very notable Jews buried in that cemetery.
Half of my family is Jewish and I grew up with my best friend being Jewish and attended his synagogue.
This person Aviva appears to be very arrogant as though only she knows what the Orthodox Jews think and yet all the evidence we have is what anyone doing a 5 minute google search could have come up with.
I am not obligated to answer someone just because they ask a question. I have chosen not to answer you because I do not believe you are asking in good faith. I find you to be abrasive, anxious to argue and dishonest given your conduct on the other thread. Your questions are also framed in a "begging the question" or on a false premise which makes answering in itself impossible.
Attacking me will not somehow goad me into interacting with you. If you don't find a thread useful the logical thing is to move on.
Attacking me will not somehow goad me into interacting with you. If you don't find a thread useful the logical thing is to move on.
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John 5
“I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.”
You are going to receive the Antichrist, thinking he is your messiah. He will at first seem to be awesome. Even facilitating a new temple. Then he will turn on you, and kill 2 out of every 3 Jews. As Zechariah prophesied.
Jesus is your Messiah. Accept Him before it’s too late.
“I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.”
You are going to receive the Antichrist, thinking he is your messiah. He will at first seem to be awesome. Even facilitating a new temple. Then he will turn on you, and kill 2 out of every 3 Jews. As Zechariah prophesied.
Jesus is your Messiah. Accept Him before it’s too late.
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It is called discernment. If we weren't permitted to exercise discernment then how could we identify the false prophet or the antichrist or wolves in sheep's clothing. Why are we told to test the spirits?
The Lord commends the church in Ephesus for doing this:
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Why doesn't the Lord tell Pergamos that they are called to love and not condemn?
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Why does the Lord tell the church in Thyatira this?
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Doesn't He know that with what judgement you judge you shall be judged?
The Lord commends the church in Ephesus for doing this:
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Why doesn't the Lord tell Pergamos that they are called to love and not condemn?
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Why does the Lord tell the church in Thyatira this?
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Doesn't He know that with what judgement you judge you shall be judged?
She claims she is an orthodox Jew, how do you know that? I asked 5 very relevant questions, I will post them again for all to see, you tell me the basis to say they are "not in good faith".
1. Post 107 -- I heard that in Leviticus 25 the law concerning the Jubilee is given and one word is translated "You shall return" I think the word is וְשַׁבְתֶּם Anyway this person said the numerical value of this word is 708, and 1948 was the Jewish year (5)708. Is that correct?
2. Post 108 --
I heard that Jews around the world were speaking
Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
on May 14, 1948, the day that Israel was raised up again. Apparently they have set verses to read from the prophets on different days. Is this correct?
3. Post 109 --
Mark Twain came and visited Israel and told the whole world how desolate it was. It reminds me of what Moses said in Deuteronomy,
29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;
23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
I heard the last day that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was in Israel was the same day that these verses in Deuteronomy were appointed to be spoken. This was 1867 -- the first year of Jubilee. 50 years later is 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, 50 years later is 1967 and 50 years after that is 2017.
So my question is I heard that for two thousand years the Jewish prayer has been "Lord hear our prayer and be merciful and bring us back". Samuel ("The Lord has heard") Clemens ("has been merciful"). Do you think Samuel Clemens was a fulfillment of this word in Deuteronomy?
4. Post 119 -- She said she was not crazy about Israel. I asked this
How does that square with being an orthodox Jew? I thought the Torah and the Prophets were very clear on the position concerning Jews and Israel.
5. Post 155 --
I have a couple of questions about Isaiah 53 concerning what Orthodox Jews understand from these verses.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Question 1 -- When Isaiah says that the Lord has laid the iniquity of us all on Him is he saying that He will be the scape goat for the sins of all the people? If so does that mean he will be driven from the people of Israel as an outcast?
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Question 2 -- For the transgression of my people he was stricken -- does this mean He is the lamb that is sacrificed as the atoning sacrifice?
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Is this talking about the Messiah? If so it says he makes his grave? I thought the Messiah inherits an eternal kingdom, so why is He dead?
1. Post 107 -- I heard that in Leviticus 25 the law concerning the Jubilee is given and one word is translated "You shall return" I think the word is וְשַׁבְתֶּם Anyway this person said the numerical value of this word is 708, and 1948 was the Jewish year (5)708. Is that correct?
2. Post 108 --
I heard that Jews around the world were speaking
Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
on May 14, 1948, the day that Israel was raised up again. Apparently they have set verses to read from the prophets on different days. Is this correct?
3. Post 109 --
Mark Twain came and visited Israel and told the whole world how desolate it was. It reminds me of what Moses said in Deuteronomy,
29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;
23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
I heard the last day that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was in Israel was the same day that these verses in Deuteronomy were appointed to be spoken. This was 1867 -- the first year of Jubilee. 50 years later is 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, 50 years later is 1967 and 50 years after that is 2017.
So my question is I heard that for two thousand years the Jewish prayer has been "Lord hear our prayer and be merciful and bring us back". Samuel ("The Lord has heard") Clemens ("has been merciful"). Do you think Samuel Clemens was a fulfillment of this word in Deuteronomy?
4. Post 119 -- She said she was not crazy about Israel. I asked this
How does that square with being an orthodox Jew? I thought the Torah and the Prophets were very clear on the position concerning Jews and Israel.
5. Post 155 --
I have a couple of questions about Isaiah 53 concerning what Orthodox Jews understand from these verses.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Question 1 -- When Isaiah says that the Lord has laid the iniquity of us all on Him is he saying that He will be the scape goat for the sins of all the people? If so does that mean he will be driven from the people of Israel as an outcast?
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Question 2 -- For the transgression of my people he was stricken -- does this mean He is the lamb that is sacrificed as the atoning sacrifice?
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Is this talking about the Messiah? If so it says he makes his grave? I thought the Messiah inherits an eternal kingdom, so why is He dead?
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