Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

[Smoke]

Reaganomics grew the middle class. We were in the midst of the roaring 80's. And lowering business taxes was the reason. When the cost of business goes down, business explodes. More money...more business activity...more jobs. Win...win...win.
It's Democrats who always increase taxes and regulation, making it expensive to do business. Businesses don't expand, people lose jobs. Less money, less business activity, and fewer jobs. Lose...lose...lose.
Then they push for more government spending. Result: inflation. Why? Because the only source of government revenue is taxes. They don't produce anything. So the increase spending doesn't produce wealth. More money is printed to cover debt. This is the source of inflation.
You have bought into lies concerning Reagan. He was an outsider. He loved America and Americans. That's why he was shot. Trump is in the same mold. He might suffer the same fate.
You are free to believe what you want about both. But you can't change economics.

Do you refuse to believe that because of corporate welfare aka Reagonomics of the 80s, the US had to borrow a significant amount of money which ultimately exponentially grew our national debt? Percentage wise, he ranks third of all time, and the most in our lifetime.

You are mistakenly using the term "revenue" when you should be using "GDP". Yes, corporate welfare does increase GDP... if you do too much corporate welfare, it also increases the national debt which we can see from the data. There needs to be a balance to yield max revenue and limit debt. Do you disagree?

 

[Smoke]

The fact that Reagan believed in borrowing money to subsidize corporate welfare means he wasn't really an economic conservative. An example of economic conservativism would be Texas making it a state law restricting them from every going into debt. They must balance their books by law.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Are you saying that supply side economics or voodoo economics worked?

 

[Cameron143]

Do you refuse to believe that because of corporate welfare aka Reagonomics of the 80s, the US had to borrow a significant amount of money which ultimately exponentially grew our national debt? Percentage wise, he ranks third of all time, and the most in our lifetime.

You are mistakenly using the term "revenue" when you should be using "GDP". Yes, corporate welfare does increase GDP... if you do too much corporate welfare, it also increases the national debt which we can see from the data. There needs to be a balance to yield max revenue and limit debt. Do you disagree?

I adamantly disagree. Government revenue almost doubled under Reagan.
I also disagree that there was corporate welfare. That is a term made up by liberals to create dissension. They received tax breaks and the tax rate was reduced.
That's what you do when you want to promote a policy...you incentivize it. Why do you think married couples get tax breaks? Why do parents get tax breaks for having children? Because as a society we were promoting marriage and children.
You don't understand the tax structure either. 50% of people in this country don't pay federal taxes. Of the 50% who do, the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes.
You have listened to liberal lies and believe the rich don't pay their fair share. The rich pay most of the taxes. You don't understand economics or what the truth concerning taxes is. You spout a bunch of liberal talking points and don't even check with reality. But it's simple: are you better off now under Biden or under Trump? Were people better off under Reagan or Carter? That's all you need to understand about economics. The ones who you are better off under know economics. The other knows politics.

 

[Cameron143]

Are you saying that supply side economics or voodoo economics worked?

Of course it did. Government revenue nearly doubled while personal income rose. That means wealth was created.

 

[Cameron143]

The fact that Reagan believed in borrowing money to subsidize corporate welfare means he wasn't really an economic conservative. An example of economic conservativism would be Texas making it a state law restricting them from every going into debt. They must balance their books by law.

Reagan brought in more money. The libs spent it. There was no money going to corporations. They were getting lower taxes and tax incentives.
Corporate welfare is what liberals do...give money to China to produce windmills and car companies to produce EV's.
You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[jennymae]

Economy is healthy growth. The Republicans won’t acknowledge that growth means getting more people aboard. The Democrats don’t acknowledge that unpredictable taxes makes corporate money go elsewhere.

 

[Cameron143]

Economy is healthy growth. The Republicans won’t acknowledge that growth means getting more people aboard. The Democrats don’t acknowledge that unpredictable taxes makes corporate money go elsewhere.

More growth is more jobs. Under Trump, black and Hispanic employment was at all time highs. A rising tide lifts all ships.

 

[jennymae]

More growth is more jobs. Under Trump, black and Hispanic employment was at all time highs. A rising tide lifts all ships.

True, but unfortunately too many ships get docked when Republicans and Democrats are fighting over the rising tide.

 

[Aviva]

Reagan brought in more money. The libs spent it. There was no money going to corporations. They were getting lower taxes and tax incentives.
Corporate welfare is what liberals do...give money to China to produce windmills and car companies to produce EV's.
You don't know what you are talking about.

I'm going to do what you do and blame the liberals whenever I don't like something or things aren't going my way. I should have used that whenever my husband came home and didn't like a purchase.

Him: "Honey, did you spend a hundred euros on an air fryer?"
Me: "It's liberal lies my love. We earned it and they spent it."

If you're going to insult people and tell them they don't know what they're talking about perhaps you should post your evidence.

I checked. Ronald Reagan almost tripled the national debt from 738 billion to 2.1 trillion.

So here's the reality, because I actually bothered to look things up:

Did Reagan have the worst growth? No, it was actually fairly okay. The economy cratered at the start but did shoot up considerably in the second half. However this came at the expense of tripling the debt... the United States went from a creditor to a debtor nation. Poverty increased and homelessness doubled. More wealth got moved upwards and the middle class suffered the most. So, the final total of income growth under Reagan was about 8%. Not awful but not the best ever.

The worst job growth was under Donald Trump. Now to be fair, some of this is certainly do to covid but even before then it was very anemic and some have argued he was coasting on the growth started under Obama. However, Obama's job growth was also weak and even though he did post about 5% income growth taxes and expenses went up even higher. So... meh.

So who was actually the worst for income and job growth? Turns out it was Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.

Who was the best? It was those well known conservative Republicans Bill Clinton followed by John F. Kennedy. In fact Bill Clinton was the last president to leave office with a surplus.

None of this is my opinion it's the official posted numbers by the Cato institute, Chamber of Commerce and so on. Check for yourselves.

 

[ZNP]

What causes poverty is spending. We have had famous people who made $50 million in one year go broke, and we had poor maids who left $1 million to their local church when they died. How much you earn is not the key factor, the key factor is how much you spend. John D. Rockefeller is an excellent positive example of frugal living leading to wealth, and Michael Jackson was an excellent example of wasteful spending leading to poverty. The reason the US is broke is because of thieves and wasteful spending. There is no other country on earth that would make $4.5 to 5 trillion a year in tax revenue that would be broke.

 

[Aviva]

So here's the reality, because I actually bothered to look things up:

So, because I try to be honest I am correcting my previous post. Reagan did in fact have the second best job growth after Clinton. I also said Kennedy when I meant to say Roosevelt. I misread some graphs. The rest of what I said it pretty accurate.

 

[Cameron143]

True, but unfortunately too many ships get docked when Republicans and Democrats are fighting over the rising tide.

Republicans and Democrats will always haggle. The problem is half the people these days get government checks and the other half work and pay taxes. Those working vote for lower taxes. Those collecting checks vote for more handouts. Politicians just want to get reelected. So they overspend trying to please both sides.

 

[iamsoandso]

Republicans and Democrats will always haggle. The problem is half the people these days get government checks and the other half work and pay taxes. Those working vote for lower taxes. Those collecting checks vote for more handouts. Politicians just want to get reelected. So they overspend trying to please both sides.

'
Yep it's all about just getting reelected. Down here in Texas Abbott brag's about all the jobs he created,,thing is in Texas the minimum wage is 7.25 an hour and so 7.25x40 is 290.00x 4 means you get a wonderful job that pays 1160.00 a month and so the vast amount of people qualify for welfare... (Texas is sucking it all up,lol) https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bott...s is currently $7.25.,up to the current $7.25.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm going to do what you do and blame the liberals whenever I don't like something or things aren't going my way. I should have used that whenever my husband came home and didn't like a purchase.

Him: "Honey, did you spend a hundred euros on an air fryer?"
Me: "It's liberal lies my love. We earned it and they spent it."

If you're going to insult people and tell them they don't know what they're talking about perhaps you should post your evidence.

I checked. Ronald Reagan almost tripled the national debt from 738 billion to 2.1 trillion.

So here's the reality, because I actually bothered to look things up:

Did Reagan have the worst growth? No, it was actually fairly okay. The economy cratered at the start but did shoot up considerably in the second half. However this came at the expense of tripling the debt... the United States went from a creditor to a debtor nation. Poverty increased and homelessness doubled. More wealth got moved upwards and the middle class suffered the most. So, the final total of income growth under Reagan was about 8%. Not awful but not the best ever.

The worst job growth was under Donald Trump. Now to be fair, some of this is certainly do to covid but even before then it was very anemic and some have argued he was coasting on the growth started under Obama. However, Obama's job growth was also weak and even though he did post about 5% income growth taxes and expenses went up even higher. So... meh.

So who was actually the worst for income and job growth? Turns out it was Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.

Who was the best? It was those well known conservative Republicans Bill Clinton followed by John F. Kennedy. In fact Bill Clinton was the last president to leave office with a surplus.

None of this is my opinion it's the official posted numbers by the Cato institute, Chamber of Commerce and so on. Check for yourselves.

A couple of things...
The debt didn't triple because of economic policy. Debt is a result of spending. So you can say spending was too high under Reagan and that would be a fair criticism. But there was no money given to corporations. They received tax breaks and cuts...not cash. And the tax breaks and cuts led to the increase in government revenue.
It is poor economic understanding on the part of some to think that the very policies that brought in the increased revenue cause debt. It simply does not. Spending...actual payouts by the government...causes debt when it exceeds revenue.
I wasn't insulting anyone. The person I responded to doesn't understand basic economics. And that's what I stated.
As far as JFK goes, he was the one to popularize the notion that Reagan later picked up on that cutting taxes increases revenue. He was also going to get rid of the Federal Reserve, and it got him killed.
As for Clinton, he had the fortune of a group of conservatives who were elected shortly after he took office. Led by Newt Gingrich, spending was cut, welfare was reformed, and law and order was restored. Clinton was compromised and didn't have the political capital to do anything about it.

 

[Cameron143]

'
Yep it's all about just getting reelected. Down here in Texas Abbott brag's about all the jobs he created,,thing is in Texas the minimum wage is 7.25 an hour and so 7.25x40 is 290.00x 4 means you get a wonderful job that pays 1160.00 a month and so the vast amount of people qualify for welfare... (Texas is sucking it all up,lol) https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bottom-line/managing-your-finances/your-guide-to-texas-minimum-wage#:~:text=The minimum wage in Texas is currently $7.25.,up to the current $7.25.

Minimum wage is low in Texas because labor is cheap because of illegal alien labor. That's what happens when the labor market is flooded with a large supply of labor...the price goes down.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

ThereRoseaLamb didn't say RINO she said Rhino, the way you identify a Rhino is they have a horn growing out of their nose.

Exactly, more like a bull in a china shop really . rofl She didn't even see her first job all the way through. I just don't believe she is sincere.

 

[iamsoandso]

Minimum wage is low in Texas because labor is cheap because of illegal alien labor. That's what happens when the labor market is flooded with a large supply of labor...the price goes down.

And in Louisiana? https://www.workstream.us/wage-inde...a minimum wage is,must make up the difference. And then again there's Mississippi? https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bottom-line/managing-your-finances/mississippi-minimum-wage
Georgia,Idaho,Kentucky,Indiana,Kansas,(and a host of others) are you sure their not just pretending that there's a lot of deadbeats on food stamps when they know their jobs don't pay much and so a whole lot of people qualify because they make so little? https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/minimum-wage-rate-by-state/

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You agreeing with someone doesn't make it fact.
.

With all due respect it doesn't make it not fact either.

Trump is ahead of other Republicans and he is deeply popular with the wider electorate, as is Biden.

I think you may want to check the polls again.

Why people support him is beyond a simple forum post but in a nutshell is a combination of authoritarianism/fascism, culture war nonsense and rage.

Biden?! Yes, I'd agree with you.

People also supported Hitler, Pol Pot, Mussalini and so on. It doesn't mean they were good leaders, it just means many people were deceived or just as hateful.

That argument is so out in left field it's not worth discussion.

Just reading this thread is constant attacks and demonization of "the left" and Democratic voters,

Well my husband was a Dem when we met just about 10 yrs ago. I don't have an issue with the voters, free country. My issue is with Dem policy. That's why I use my vote and my free speech to come against their views. Up to the voters to make up their own minds.

along with every conspiracy theory under the sun.

I'd say that's a slight exaggeration. But Dems have a few conspiracy theories themselves.

It's not hard to see why he is so popular with certain people. It'd just non-stop "the left the left the left" with every wild baseless acusation under the sun up to and including murder and pedophilia. It's ridiculous.

Murder with abortion, yes, I agree it's murder. Don't know what you mean by the second point.

 

[jennymae]

A solid economy needs a healthy balance of spending. A population not spending/spending beyond measures is equally wrong. This is also why both Democrats and Republicans are economic failures.

In a broader perspective we would gain economic strength by focusing on the strengths of both parties views on this.

Will we? No, our primary goal is bashing the other side. The consequences of this is an economy fluctuating like a hurricane outside the gulf coast.