The Security Of The Believer
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He's dead. Address people and their arguments. Calvin isn't giving voice to anything. And no one making arguments are making reference to him. It is you and others who make reference to him in your arguments.
Don't you find it odd that the ones you believe are followers of Calvin never reference him, and those who don't want anything to do with him always do?
Don't you find it odd that the ones you believe are followers of Calvin never reference him, and those who don't want anything to do with him always do?
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i don't care, seriously, what you say concerning Calvin.
the Doctrine that exists, existed when Calvin and Armini took their sides and from there on, 2 specific viewpoints were what people gleaned from.
so, had NO ONE brought it up, like what those 2 did, i am willing to bet, what is on this Thread would not be how people think.
the Doctrine that exists, existed when Calvin and Armini took their sides and from there on, 2 specific viewpoints were what people gleaned from.
so, had NO ONE brought it up, like what those 2 did, i am willing to bet, what is on this Thread would not be how people think.
First off, being "afraid" is being in fear which is sinful behavior according to Jesus (Revelation 21:8)
Secondly, what Jesus did at the Cross does NOT make reaping what we sow to go away... to say one can still be saved even if they turn back to living in sin is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8
Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Also, Jesus tells us in John 15 that those who do not abide IN Him are cut of... Jesus does not lie like the false teachers spewing OSAS doctrine!
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
And, God's Word teaches we will be rewarded according to our deeds... those that do good get eternal life, those that do not obey the Truth (ALL of God's Word) get damnation.
Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
So what you should do is ask the Lord to help deliver you from false teachers and to deliver you from being a cherry picker and instead start accepting ALL that the Lord says concerning salvation in His Word...
The fake OSAS doctrine teaches people that they can never lose their salvation even if they decided to continue in their sin rejecting the Lord's discipline... and so they continue in their sin which is the falling away God told us about in His Word that would happen in the end times
This is why some many "christians" these days act just like those in the world that have never been born again.
That's because the false teachers make stuff up as they go along which is need to keep evety one's ears tickled.
The OSAS doctrine came from the devil... it was his original deception he taught to Adam and Eve... which is, you can sin against God (disobey) and you will not die spiritually (separation from God) even though God said they would die is they disobeyed.
This is the premise for satan's primary deception is... you will still be in right standing with God even when you sin against Him.
It's direct opposition to God's Word which states He is NOT mocked, we reap what we sow and if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall reap corruption (unrighteousness)
2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
A word of caution to the OSAS peoples... it's time to quit being cherry pickers and start love the Truth which is ALL of God's Word.... Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (whole counsel of God)... just just bits and pieces of God's Word which is how devils lead people in to God's Word as he did with Adam and Eve.
That's hilarious!
The first wave of reformist theologians include Huldrych Zwingli (1484–1531), Martin Bucer (1491–1551), Wolfgang Capito (1478–1541), John Oecolampadius (1482–1531), and Guillaume Farel (1489–1565).
Calvinism is considered the enforcer of the Reformed tradition. Nov 19, 2022
so Calvin is why the Doctrine even exists today because he forced it upon anyone who had ears to listen and hear.
Calvinism is considered the enforcer of the Reformed tradition. Nov 19, 2022
so Calvin is why the Doctrine even exists today because he forced it upon anyone who had ears to listen and hear.
I've always been a big fan of the Book of Acts.
especially, when Peter understands that God is now Welcoming the Gentiles.
which, brings us to the Roman Centurion, Cornelius, who an Angel visited him and caused him to send for the Apostle Peter.
and when Peter shows up, Cornelius, tells Peter about the Angel and that Peter had a message for him.
LOOK how Peter begins what he is Inspired by the Holy Spirit to say to Cornelius:
Acts 10:
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said: In truth, I comprehend that God is not a respecter of persons,
35 but in every nation [[he that fears him and works righteousness]] is acceptable to him
11:
17 If then God gave to them the like gift as to us also, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ
18 And when they heard these things they were silent, and glorified God, saying: Then has God given to the Gentiles also repentance to life.
that ugly word, WORKS, seems to always pop up.
Amazing there's even a Doctrine against it, when it is mentioned in almost, if not, every Book of the New Testament.
especially, when Peter understands that God is now Welcoming the Gentiles.
which, brings us to the Roman Centurion, Cornelius, who an Angel visited him and caused him to send for the Apostle Peter.
and when Peter shows up, Cornelius, tells Peter about the Angel and that Peter had a message for him.
LOOK how Peter begins what he is Inspired by the Holy Spirit to say to Cornelius:
Acts 10:
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said: In truth, I comprehend that God is not a respecter of persons,
35 but in every nation [[he that fears him and works righteousness]] is acceptable to him
11:
17 If then God gave to them the like gift as to us also, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ
18 And when they heard these things they were silent, and glorified God, saying: Then has God given to the Gentiles also repentance to life.
that ugly word, WORKS, seems to always pop up.
Amazing there's even a Doctrine against it, when it is mentioned in almost, if not, every Book of the New Testament.
You aren't taking into account the context of the cutting off and judgment passages Jimmy.
A whole church being judged isn't each individual in that church losing eternal life.
Being 'cut off'. ...what is the context?
Is that an individual losing eternal life or being disciplined and rebuked to get back right fellowship with God?
Is it an individual's status as a church member being cut? That also is not losing eternal life.
What is the context of these verses?
A whole church being judged isn't each individual in that church losing eternal life.
Being 'cut off'. ...what is the context?
Is that an individual losing eternal life or being disciplined and rebuked to get back right fellowship with God?
Is it an individual's status as a church member being cut? That also is not losing eternal life.
What is the context of these verses?
All of these statements are false because the doctrinal teaching of this thread preceded these reformists by more than 1400 years. You can deny this to your grave, but it will not change the facts. This teaching is distinctly Baptist, and Baptists preceded Catholicism. Educate yourself in church history.
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Jesus, Paul and all the other authors taught eternal security. Eternal security was true from the beginning.
My observation: Eternal security proponents are accused of ignoring the warning verses, The abiding verses, the following verses ect.
I see the eternal security believers explaining those verses. And the loss of salvation crowd won't touch these with a 10 meter cattle prod~~ never perish, you have eternal life, will not come into condemnation, none will I lose, no one can snatch, sealed, I give them eternal life ect....
John 10:27 I hear Him. He knows me. I follow Him. I am one of His sheep. See, I deal with vs 27, loss of salvation won't deal with vs 28.
John 10:28 He gave me eternal life. He tells me I will not perish. No one(I am included in 'no one') will snatch me out of His hand.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
There is a major contradiction involved if I claim to be one of His sheep and also claim that I could possibly perish.
My observation: Eternal security proponents are accused of ignoring the warning verses, The abiding verses, the following verses ect.
I see the eternal security believers explaining those verses. And the loss of salvation crowd won't touch these with a 10 meter cattle prod~~ never perish, you have eternal life, will not come into condemnation, none will I lose, no one can snatch, sealed, I give them eternal life ect....
John 10:27 I hear Him. He knows me. I follow Him. I am one of His sheep. See, I deal with vs 27, loss of salvation won't deal with vs 28.
John 10:28 He gave me eternal life. He tells me I will not perish. No one(I am included in 'no one') will snatch me out of His hand.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
There is a major contradiction involved if I claim to be one of His sheep and also claim that I could possibly perish.
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Absolutely. To break it down to its very essence:
SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST = ETERNAL SECURITY FOR THE CHILD OF GOD
That is the Gospel truth from beginning to end. So what about verses which "seemingly" contradict eternal security? They must be properly interpreted in the light of the clear and plain verses that assure the believer that NOTHING can separate him or her from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. That includes anything sinful that is done by that person. God has many ways to deal with His wayward children. But there is never any loss of salvation (which is A FREE GIFT).
As to the allegation that this doctrine began with the Reformers, that is totally incorrect. There were indeed many Bible-believing Christian churches throughout the world from the 1st to the 14th centuries who preached the true Gospel. At the same time, the Reformers also saw this as a FUNDAMETAL BIBLE DOCTRINE. Therefore their Westminster Confession of Faith includes the eternal security teaching.
SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST = ETERNAL SECURITY FOR THE CHILD OF GOD
That is the Gospel truth from beginning to end. So what about verses which "seemingly" contradict eternal security? They must be properly interpreted in the light of the clear and plain verses that assure the believer that NOTHING can separate him or her from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. That includes anything sinful that is done by that person. God has many ways to deal with His wayward children. But there is never any loss of salvation (which is A FREE GIFT).
As to the allegation that this doctrine began with the Reformers, that is totally incorrect. There were indeed many Bible-believing Christian churches throughout the world from the 1st to the 14th centuries who preached the true Gospel. At the same time, the Reformers also saw this as a FUNDAMETAL BIBLE DOCTRINE. Therefore their Westminster Confession of Faith includes the eternal security teaching.
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