Orthodox Jew answers a few questions
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I think we'll continue to run into the same issue here. There is one of you and many more of us. I'm not sure of how the Jews see the Messiah. Obviously he will be Jewish. As a Christian we anticipate, or most of us do, that Jesus could return at any moment and the end is that we will have a heavenly home. The Muslims have a similar belief of a return of a prophet, I may not have that totally correct. So may I ask, how do Jews see their Messiah, are they looking for his return or is that a Christian concept. Would you mind sharing your beliefs about the Messiah. No one here should be attacking you. You've made you beliefs and reason for being here plain. I'd like to get your POV. On my Facebook page I have a friend who is Muslim and one who is Jewish. When I say pray for peace in the middle east, both of them hit like on it. So I hope everyone will just calm down and let you answer questions you want to answer.
In an extremely abbreviated form:
- The Messiah will restore the Jewish people and reestablish the temple. (Isaiah 11:12 )
- He will establish world peace. (Isaiah 2:1 - 5, Micah 4:3)
- He will write the knowledge of G-d's law in people's heart. (Isaiah 66:23) (Jeremiah 31:30 - 33)
- He will rule when Jews are observing the Mitzvot (Ezekiel 37:24) In other words, he won't return until Jews have reached a high degree of observance to the Torah and faith in G-d.
I'm at work and don't have the time to look up other verses but in addition:
- He will be filled with the spirit of G-d, and use this to judge people and nations.
- Nations will come to seek his council.
- The Messiah will restore the Jewish people and reestablish the temple. (Isaiah 11:12 )
- He will establish world peace. (Isaiah 2:1 - 5, Micah 4:3)
- He will write the knowledge of G-d's law in people's heart. (Isaiah 66:23) (Jeremiah 31:30 - 33)
- He will rule when Jews are observing the Mitzvot (Ezekiel 37:24) In other words, he won't return until Jews have reached a high degree of observance to the Torah and faith in G-d.
I'm at work and don't have the time to look up other verses but in addition:
- He will be filled with the spirit of G-d, and use this to judge people and nations.
- Nations will come to seek his council.
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Christians most always lump sum's together everyone Jewish and expect a lump sum answer sort of like one size fits all. In Christianity there are denominations while there are flavors of belief in Judaism. If you could imagine your own selves asking questions about Christianity it would make sense that if you ask the Pope he would explain it one way while Darby would explain it another. In the same if you ask about the olam ha-ba your going to get different answers because not everyone in Judaism believes exactly the same you just think they do. I would imagine it's the opposite for someone Jewish to view a Christian thread in that it would seem as if they all believed something different.
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All Jews must believe in The Torah, the Talmud and the Messiah. The differences are in how strictly some Mitzvot are applied. For example I'm more liberal, also called "Modern Orthodox", then an ultra Orthodox Jew. If I were traditional or ultra Orthodox I'd never have been allowed to marry a Christian husband or do some of the jobs I do. Also there are issues of interactions with the world or rabbinical authority that I won't go into.
However all of us believe in the divinity of the Torah and G-d.
However all of us believe in the divinity of the Torah and G-d.
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I heard that Jews around the world were speaking
Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
on May 14, 1948, the day that Israel was raised up again. Apparently they have set verses to read from the prophets on different days. Is this correct?
Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
on May 14, 1948, the day that Israel was raised up again. Apparently they have set verses to read from the prophets on different days. Is this correct?
Mark Twain came and visited Israel and told the whole world how desolate it was. It reminds me of what Moses said in Deuteronomy,
29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;
23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
I heard the last day that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was in Israel was the same day that these verses in Deuteronomy were appointed to be spoken. This was 1867 -- the first year of Jubilee. 50 years later is 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, 50 years later is 1967 and 50 years after that is 2017.
So my question is I heard that for two thousand years the Jewish prayer has been "Lord hear our prayer and be merciful and bring us back". Samuel ("The Lord has heard") Clemens ("has been merciful"). Do you think Samuel Clemens was a fulfillment of this word in Deuteronomy?
29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;
23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
I heard the last day that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) was in Israel was the same day that these verses in Deuteronomy were appointed to be spoken. This was 1867 -- the first year of Jubilee. 50 years later is 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, 50 years later is 1967 and 50 years after that is 2017.
So my question is I heard that for two thousand years the Jewish prayer has been "Lord hear our prayer and be merciful and bring us back". Samuel ("The Lord has heard") Clemens ("has been merciful"). Do you think Samuel Clemens was a fulfillment of this word in Deuteronomy?
Samuel Clemens "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince... Can the curse of the Deity beautify a land? “Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies.”
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/unto-the-nations-505760
“A Hopeless, Dreary, Heart-Broken Land”
Prior to his departure, Twain had signed a contract to write fifty-one short articles during the journey. The letters he penned while in Palestine were combined with articles he wrote later on, the result being “The Innocents Abroad“, a book which detailed his impressions of the strange country he encountered.
https://blog.nli.org.il/en/mark-twain-in-palestine/
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/unto-the-nations-505760
“A Hopeless, Dreary, Heart-Broken Land”
Prior to his departure, Twain had signed a contract to write fifty-one short articles during the journey. The letters he penned while in Palestine were combined with articles he wrote later on, the result being “The Innocents Abroad“, a book which detailed his impressions of the strange country he encountered.
https://blog.nli.org.il/en/mark-twain-in-palestine/
Thanks for the response. In times past here on the Forum Ive tried to explain the differences between the different views in Judaism. In my family line I have met members after doing genealogy who are Hebrew but were either Chabad or Haredi from the views they hold. I am Christian and from what I know of my immediate family line they were also Christian back as far as I could find(about 1250ad in Amsterdam/Naarden)... Anyway I have tried to explain the differences between Modern Orthodox, Chabad,Haredi ect. and some I think see what I'm trying to say but others still I think see that all Jews see things the same. Anyway it's probably better for you to explain your position from the other positions held in Judaism.
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I love you and want you to stay. I think it is Jesus making me feel that way. This is how His Holy Spirit works in us. It is more than just a religion. It is highly experiential. I have no idea what it is like to grow up in a non-Christian environment. I have no grounds upon which to judge you in any way.
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We believe that the Anti-Christ will make this possible and establish a pseudo-peace treaty (which he will break in short order.) We believe that the true Messiah will return to Earth seven years after this event and revisit your Jewish people at the end of this Tribulation Period. We believe that this Messiah is Jesus and that Jesus is the Son of God. The above future coming will be His Second Coming. All this is found in our New Testament book of Revelation.
I wasn't originally asking a question in post #105(post you originally responded to), but was pointing out to others that depending which movement within Judaism was answering the questions the answers may differ. In another post you made to me you described yourself as "Modern Orthodox" and so another Jewish movement may not answer some of the questions the same. Since you ask though in post #80,page 4 you said something I was curious about
Romans 9:6 Context
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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