The Security Of The Believer

[Everlasting-Grace]

so, you think those who posted the Lord's Prayer to you, other than myself, is also lying about what Jesus Commanded?

this is how dishonest you are

1. It does not say anywhere in the Lord’s Prayer to repent., not one time
2. It does not say anything about daily, except to give us our daily bread.
3. It just shows and proves you can not show what you demand everyone that Jesus said, when he did not

i knew you could not stop.

No, I will not stop. Not until you repent of the fact you lied about what Jesus said, and not until you stop saying jesus said to repent daily when he did not

you have issues with the truth and it must've eaten a hole right through you until you had no choice but to log back in and address me.

No, I have issues with liars. I have issues with people who will not admit when they are wrong. And I have issues with people who continue to demand Jesus said something he never said.

i told you, i got paid and trained to understand the habits of people, by the usa Government, to which many here pay taxes to

lol. That explains it.. hat explains why you say half truths, and non truths and consider them to be truths

Thanks for proving I was right.. Not that it matters, I did not need you to prove I was right, I knew it all along, because I looked up the words repent daily in the best versions of scripture and could not find it, Because it is NOT THERE. And anyone here can look it up themselves and they will not find it. Because it is NOT THERE. And you have had multiple times and multiple days to look it up yourself and show me where it is, But you can’t BECAUSE ITS NOT THERE.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

just so you know, this is how Scholars and Theologians define both Repentance and asking for Forgiveness:


Repentance is the turning away from sin and turning to God for forgiveness

Asking for Forgiveness is acknowledging sin and asking God's forgiveness for it


According to those who know, Repentance and asking Forgiveness are very similar.

so, i think i will continue saying it how i was

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

just so you know, this is how Scholars and Theologians define both Repentance and asking for Forgiveness:


Repentance is the turning away from sin and turning to God for forgiveness

Asking for Forgiveness is acknowledging sin and asking God's forgiveness for it


According to those who know, Repentance and asking Forgiveness are very similar.

so, i think i will continue saying it how i was

You have every right,

But you should stop chosing scholars who just believe as you do. And seek to understand the truth.

We are told to repent once. To turn from our evil ways. To turn from our walk in the world and denial of God. To turn to God. And accept that we are sinners. We have no hope. And we are seperated from God. Unless we do this. We will never trust in Gods plan of salvation

We will never become poor in spirit Like jesus said we had to do to enter the kingdom of God (literally bancrupt)

we will never be ready when either God himself or someone he sends comes to tell us about his great salvation so we will never recieve it. Or the the most. We will not recieve it in whole.. we will be easily decieved by another gospel that is similar. But no gospel at all

John the Baptist taught a baptism of repentance. To get people ready for the kingdom. Because their messiah was here. He was to prepare the way so they would be ready when Jesus came.

Sadly, when Jesus came, there were only a few who truly repented.

Most were looking for King messiah and Not The suffering servant. They also did not think they needed saved, they thought by being Chrildren of Abraham and keeping the law they were ok with God.

When Jesus told them they were not Good enough. And told them That he was God who came to save them, and told them they were just as sick as the gentiles.. When he hung out with Sinners. When he started to stand up to them, they crucified him.

Why? They had not repented. Even after, we see they still did not repent. Many said, yes we believe this Jesus but it can’t be all grace, you have to be circumcised, you have to obey the law you have to do this and that. Why? Again, they did not repent. Their hearts were not prepared, So they rejected the gospel. Or added to it. Which made it a different Gospel paul fraught for his whole ministry (see gal 3)

Repentance Prepairs us for the truth.

Confession on the other hand, is when we acknowledge our sin, It is different that repentance because we repent and acknowledge our sinful life. Where in confession, we acknowledge individual sin we are struggling with. We not only confess these sins to God. Be also continue to agree we are not without sin (he who says we have no sin) whereby deceiving ourselves, and we are confessing that we continue to be sinners (if we say we never sinned we making God a liar, )

But the Bible also says we confess our sins to each other. For healing.

A person who is unable to acknowledge or confess a person sin either is in denial, or does not think it is sin. And that person is in danger, (not of losing salvation, but losing his testimony and being able to produce fruit)

Repent and confess are two different words. They mean different things. To say they are basically the same and interchangeable is just to be in error. We only do this because we need them to to keep our belief systems in tact.

We need to not be followers of men, they will lead us astray, but we are to test each spirit to see if what they say is truth or not.

If it does not add up. We should reject what we are being told..

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You have every right,

But you should stop chosing scholars who just believe as you do. And seek to understand the truth.

We are told to repent once. To turn from our evil ways. To turn from our walk in the world and denial of God. To turn to God. And accept that we are sinners. We have no hope. And we are seperated from God. Unless we do this. We will never trust in Gods plan of salvation

We will never become poor in spirit Like jesus said we had to do to enter the kingdom of God (literally bancrupt)

we will never be ready when either God himself or someone he sends comes to tell us about his great salvation so we will never recieve it. Or the the most. We will not recieve it in whole.. we will be easily decieved by another gospel that is similar. But no gospel at all

John the Baptist taught a baptism of repentance. To get people ready for the kingdom. Because their messiah was here. He was to prepare the way so they would be ready when Jesus came.

Sadly, when Jesus came, there were only a few who truly repented.

Most were looking for King messiah and Not The suffering servant. They also did not think they needed saved, they thought by being Chrildren of Abraham and keeping the law they were ok with God.

When Jesus told them they were not Good enough. And told them That he was God who came to save them, and told them they were just as sick as the gentiles.. When he hung out with Sinners. When he started to stand up to them, they crucified him.

Why? They had not repented. Even after, we see they still did not repent. Many said, yes we believe this Jesus but it can’t be all grace, you have to be circumcised, you have to obey the law you have to do this and that. Why? Again, they did not repent. Their hearts were not prepared, So they rejected the gospel. Or added to it. Which made it a different Gospel paul fraught for his whole ministry (see gal 3)

Repentance Prepairs us for the truth.

Confession on the other hand, is when we acknowledge our sin, It is different that repentance because we repent and acknowledge our sinful life. Where in confession, we acknowledge individual sin we are struggling with. We not only confess these sins to God. Be also continue to agree we are not without sin (he who says we have no sin) whereby deceiving ourselves, and we are confessing that we continue to be sinners (if we say we never sinned we making God a liar, )

But the Bible also says we confess our sins to each other. For healing.

A person who is unable to acknowledge or confess a person sin either is in denial, or does not think it is sin. And that person is in danger, (not of losing salvation, but losing his testimony and being able to produce fruit)

Repent and confess are two different words. They mean different things. To say they are basically the same and interchangeable is just to be in error. We only do this because we need them to to keep our belief systems in tact.

We need to not be followers of men, they will lead us astray, but we are to test each spirit to see if what they say is truth or not.

If it does not add up. We should reject what we are being told..

my beliefs majorly stem from my upbringing like Baptist and Pentecostal.
most scholars and theologians ARE NOT Baptist and Pentecostal.
so, i am using independent Viewpoints.

 

[Jimbone]

this is why this makes more sense to me:

22. Many will say to me in that day, 'My Lord, my Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?'
23. And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of evil.'

See the part where "HE NEVER KNEW THEM???" Yea. Same hold true for those that depart Him, John says they left us because they were NEVER of us. Once He saves us it is for a purpose, and that purpose is NEVER to be cast out again.

When you thumbed up one of my post earlier I started to see something I didn't think you subscribed to. Do you believe after we are born again in Him, truly saved in real life by His grace and sacrifice, that we will ever be unsaved? As in disconnected from Him spiritually, cut off as we were before? Do you believe that God saves anyone that He will change His mind about and cast into hell? Does God make mistakes, or save us then leave it up to us to maybe mess up? I'm not sure if you're actually arguing for it being possible to be saved by our Creator and still go to hell. Honestly I am starting to feel like you are not even arguing for this, I KNOW Jimmy believes that, but you've said a few things now that make me feel that this is not what you're arguing anymore. I may be 100% off base here so that's why I'm asking.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

my beliefs majorly stem from my upbringing like Baptist and Pentecostal.
most scholars and theologians ARE NOT Baptist and Pentecostal.
so, i am using independent Viewpoints.

It does not matter who you use.

They need to line up with the word of God.

My upbringing was Baptist AlSO, But that does not matter there were so many types of baptists and they all do not believe the same

In fact. After I returned, I found much of what I was taught was error. Why do you think I fight legalism so hard? Because I have seen what it does

It keeps people from the truth (getting saved)

and for those saved, It keeps them from Growing. Because you’re too focused on self and not focused on others. And you’re too afraid to confess a sin because you know you will get judged (you can’t be saved and do that) or whatever judgment they impose on you. Thats why the churches die (the church I grew up in no longer exists)

Like I tell catholics. Eternity is to long to put my eternal soul in the hands of men. I want to know what is right. If it does not make sense. Most likely something is wrong. If it appears to contradict itself, it most likely does.

When you stand in front of God. You’re not goin gto get an out because you listened to theologians and other leaders. If they got it wrong. They will be there with you.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

But my FIRST POST in this Thread (Post#1) was about the Sealing of the Holy Spirit.
that (and the security it brings) was my focus for the entire Thread.

But, that seal is simply God's mark or claim upon us once we become born again... it does NOT mean that we still go to Heaven if we turn away from the Lord to go back to living in sin as most of the OSAS peoples supposes.

Many today are continuing in their sin thinking they are still saved because they have been deceived by the OSAS people's fake gospel... when keeps telling people it's not possible to lose their salvation when God's Word clearly does not teach that.


Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

IF we do not continue in His goodness (abide in Christ, not walking after the flesh) then we will be cut off as the scripture is telling us.

This agrees with what Jesus is telling us in John 15 which the OSAS peoples must reject or otherwise explain away seeing that what Jesus taught doesn't fit their false doctrine which puts them in opposition to Jesus

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Sadly, the OSAS peoples don't believe that Philippians 4:13 applies to them since they claim if one quits doing sin, they are trying to earn their salvation which is nothing but a bunch of horse hockey!

 

[John146]

But, that seal is simply God's mark or claim upon us once we become born again... it does NOT mean that we still go to Heaven if we turn away from the Lord to go back to living in sin as most of the OSAS peoples supposes.

Can a believer bring grief to the holy Spirit by the manner of which they are living?

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

Can a believer bring grief to the holy Spirit by the manner of which they are living?

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Those that believe that seal means you can never be lost even if one turns away from God... then that would be mocking God!

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.


The Lord desires to have fellowship with those that are like Him, which excludes angels and all other created being as they were not created in His Image. Mankind is the only being God created in His Own Image. We are valued above ALL other creatures because God's intention in creating us is to be in fellowship with man on God's level!

Speaking of those that have been born again Ephesians 2:6 tells us God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. In other words, He wants fellowship with beings who are like Himself... who CHOOSE to be with Him! Who CHOOSE to turn away from darkness in order to walk and live in agreement with the Lord.

This is the whole purpose for our existence! Not only to desire to be with the Lord... but to put our faith and desire in to action and turn away from darkness, from things that the Lord does not approve of so we can fellowship with Him in righteousness.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

When someone derides to sin, they are willingly turning away from the Lord, on purpose after having come to the age of accountability where they know the difference between right and wrong (not speaking of little children)

There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5), and the Lord has no fellowship with darkness (2 Corinthians 6:14)... so those that sin are separated from the Lord by their willingness to turn away from Him and walk in darkness.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

The OSAS peoples have been fooled intro believing one can do sin and not be separated from the Lord! This is not taught in God's Word. I get it that nobody wants to talk about what happens to those that continue in sin... but it's better to talk about what God's Word says about it than to make up a fake gospel that says "you can never ever never never lose your salvation"

This means if one continues in sin they must say this person is still saved because if they don't they are acknowledging that OSAS is false doctrine which will make them look stupid so as a matter of pride and in the interest of never being seen as being in error... they have to say those that continue in sin as still; saved in their view.

This obviously is NOT what God's Word teaches... and the OSAS peoples wouldn't know that because they don't accept all the Lord has said in His Word about it. They can't, because if they did they would have to admit that OSAS is false doctrine and they will never ever never never do that.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

One cannot obtain mercy after they have sinned without confessing their sin unto the Lord and turning away from their sin. The old timers called it "admit it and quit it" and then we should make no provisions for the flesh to continue in sin (Romans 13:14) by walking after the Spirit so we aren't fulfilling the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16-26)

They'll agree that when one is born again they did sow to the spirit and reaped life... but then they deny and ignore the rest of Galatians 6:7-8 claiming if one sows to the flesh (sins) they do not reap corruption.

The OSAS peoples don't know that salvation is on God's terms and what Jesus did at the Cross of Calvary... does not eliminate or do away with seedtime and harvest. God is not mocked!

Romans 2:9-11
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Magenta]

Who has overcome the world?

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

They were never born of god. Because they never had faith

1 Peter 1:23 plus 1 John 5:4

 

[wattie]

An inquiry here:

Where in the bible do we 'turning from sins' part of initial salvation?

Surely turning from sin we can only do after conversion if we are talking about an active behaviour.

Because before conversion we are dead in sin, and any act of reducing sin before conversion is just making a corpse smell nice.

'Repent'... At salvation..
is about a change of mind, heart .. in believing in Jesus as God, that He died and rose again, that by believing in Him we have eternal life.

At salvation it's not a commitment to good works for Jesus or behaviour of reducing sin.

It's going from unbelief to belief. Not a promise of lifetime commitment.

Because if we mix our own effort into salvation it's not salvation at all.. it's gotta come from Jesus, not us.

John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10. Romans 5:8

Surely turning from sin is done after conversion and is a work.

 

[NightTwister]

But, that seal is simply God's mark or claim upon us once we become born again...

Yes it is.
[/QUOTE]it does NOT mean that we still go to Heaven if we turn away from the Lord to go back to living in sin as most of the OSAS peoples supposes.[/QUOTE]
Yet they DON'T suppose that, and you've been told that many times, yet you continue to INTENTIONALLY bear false witness against your neighbors. REPENT!

 

[Jimbone]

Yes it is.

it does NOT mean that we still go to Heaven if we turn away from the Lord to go back to living in sin as most of the OSAS peoples supposes.[/QUOTE]
Yet they DON'T suppose that, and you've been told that many times, yet you continue to INTENTIONALLY bear false witness against your neighbors. REPENT! [/QUOTE]


THIS is why I can't talk to this clown. He will not listen and every conversation I've seen him in, he is always speaking in bad faith. I can't even see him as a brother sadly, his behavior and the way He speaks to people reek of ignorance and the flesh. Just a sad case in limbo.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

See the part where "HE NEVER KNEW THEM???" Yea. Same hold true for those that depart Him, John says they left us because they were NEVER of us. Once He saves us it is for a purpose, and that purpose is NEVER to be cast out again.

When you thumbed up one of my post earlier I started to see something I didn't think you subscribed to. Do you believe after we are born again in Him, truly saved in real life by His grace and sacrifice, that we will ever be unsaved? As in disconnected from Him spiritually, cut off as we were before? Do you believe that God saves anyone that He will change His mind about and cast into hell? Does God make mistakes, or save us then leave it up to us to maybe mess up? I'm not sure if you're actually arguing for it being possible to be saved by our Creator and still go to hell. Honestly I am starting to feel like you are not even arguing for this, I KNOW Jimmy believes that, but you've said a few things now that make me feel that this is not what you're arguing anymore. I may be 100% off base here so that's why I'm asking.

did you read the part where God told the Church of Smyrna He would BLOT OUT their Names?

God knew them, but, once He Blots Out their Name, it's like forgiven Sin, He no longer Remembers.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It does not matter who you use.

They need to line up with the word of God.

My upbringing was Baptist AlSO, But that does not matter there were so many types of baptists and they all do not believe the same

In fact. After I returned, I found much of what I was taught was error. Why do you think I fight legalism so hard? Because I have seen what it does

It keeps people from the truth (getting saved)

and for those saved, It keeps them from Growing. Because you’re too focused on self and not focused on others. And you’re too afraid to confess a sin because you know you will get judged (you can’t be saved and do that) or whatever judgment they impose on you. Thats why the churches die (the church I grew up in no longer exists)

Like I tell catholics. Eternity is to long to put my eternal soul in the hands of men. I want to know what is right. If it does not make sense. Most likely something is wrong. If it appears to contradict itself, it most likely does.

When you stand in front of God. You’re not goin gto get an out because you listened to theologians and other leaders. If they got it wrong. They will be there with you.

they are lining up.
And i have proven YOU don't even KNOW the Basics of the Bible, and would not know what aligns with God what does not according to the Word of God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where in the bible do we 'turning from sins' part of initial salvation?

We see that in many passages. Keep looking.

 

[NightTwister]

it does NOT mean that we still go to Heaven if we turn away from the Lord to go back to living in sin as most of the OSAS peoples supposes.

Yet they DON'T suppose that, and you've been told that many times, yet you continue to INTENTIONALLY bear false witness against your neighbors. REPENT! [/QUOTE]


THIS is why I can't talk to this clown. He will not listen and every conversation I've seen him in, he is always speaking in bad faith. I can't even see him as a brother sadly, his behavior and the way He speaks to people reek of ignorance and the flesh. Just a sad case in limbo.[/QUOTE]
He's just a troll. Sometimes I respond, sometimes I don't, depending on my mood. They rarely even respond to direct questions or statements.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

the Greek word used for Grieving the Spirit literally means "to make unhappy."
what does an unhappy God do to those who continue to tick Him off?

 

[wattie]

did you read the part where God told the Church of Smyrna He would BLOT OUT their Names?

God knew them, but, once He Blots Out their Name, it's like forgiven Sin, He no longer Remembers.

Again....an entire church losing the presence of the Holy Spirit is not the individuals in that church each losing eternal life.

 

[wattie]

We see that in many passages. Keep looking.

Act_26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Act_14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

I don't think these verses are about initial conversion. Maybe they are... but what is the context of each?