The Security Of The Believer

[Cameron143]

God died for the World and taught the world hates Him and will Hate us.

So, He LOVED a world He knew hated Him.

And still Died for them.

This is not as difficult as you make it.

He Died out His Love for a World that 90% will end up in Hell forever.

That is just the facts.

Ok. But it's immaterial to whether people in hell are separated from the love of God. They are. And because someone in Christ cannot be in such a condition, one cannot lose their salvation.
This also means that verses that on their face that seem to contradict this should be interpreted with an alternate understanding.

 

[Kroogz]

I believe the Moment we're Saved these Promises apply.

But clearly afterwards, we can become a DEAD BRANCH and be cut off or Jesus would not even be warning us of that fact.

You have to explain for me.( I am a little dense!)

That does not make any sense to me.

If I claim to be saved, right now , at this moment and He promised I will never perish. How can the dead branch mean that I can perish? That would mean that the promise would not apply.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You have to explain for me.( I am a little dense!)

That does not make any sense to me.

If I claim to be saved, right now , at this moment and He promised I will never perish. How can the dead branch mean that I can perish? That would mean that the promise would not apply.

Because the moment you are regenerated you are Saved with the Promises connected to being a Child of God.

As for the other portion, the Branch is connected to Jesus and gets cut off.

You can only be connected to Jesus by being regenerated.

But Jesus is showing that regenerated people can become to a point of not producing Good Fruit and the Father cuts the Branch off.

That is what the Bible says.

I did not understand it for a long time.

But when I eventually read where Saved people will fall away and can become deceived, it made more sense.

 

[Kroogz]

Because the moment you are regenerated you are Saved with the Promises connected to being a Child of God.

As for the other portion, the Branch is connected to Jesus and gets cut off.

You can only be connected to Jesus by being regenerated.

But Jesus is showing that regenerated people can become to a point of not producing Good Fruit and the Father cuts the Branch off.

That is what the Bible says.

I did not understand it for a long time.

But when I eventually read where Saved people will fall away and can become deceived, it made more sense.

I still don't follow you. I could be wrong, but I was sure that you claimed "being cut off" was thrown into hell and not saved.

So His promise to me that I shall never perish, does not apply. I don't see how I can see that any other way? Unless I am mistaken about what you believe "cut off" means.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I still don't follow you. I could be wrong, but I was sure that you claimed "being cut off" was thrown into hell and not saved.

So His promise to me that I shall never perish, does not apply. I don't see how I can see that any other way? Unless I am mistaken about what you believe "cut off" means.

tell me, it feels like you're trying to trap me into something. so answer this before i answer you.

the Saved, Paul, speaks about that will Fall Away from the Faith, will become Deceived, are these Believers, Paul is discussing, going to Hell?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jesus even says it:

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other



***so, as it should be, Paul, is backing the literal words of Jesus...not the other way around***

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jesus even says it:

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other



***so, as it should be, Paul, is backing the literal words of Jesus...not the other way around***

notice, Jesus, does not say they have Eternal Life after Falling Away.

He says:
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

this is the perfect example of Remaining/Abiding in God so you're not a Dead Branch getting cut off

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

^
this is probably another "solid reason" why Jesus Commanded us to ask for Forgiveness daily


like i said, take the literal words of Jesus and put them all together and it clearly STATES what i have been saying this entire time.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

From what I have studied, this is the great white throne judgement. It is for unbelievers only. "In that day" is the final judgment, and every knee shall bow......Hence the "my Lord,my lord."

The frightening thing to me is the fact that these people did MIGHTY works in His name and not one sin is mentioned. These were obviously, good , moral, upstanding and law abiding people. From what they claim they did for the Lord, we can assume they were church goers also.

Not one sin mentioned, but the Lord called them evildoers.

Why were they not saved? Thoughts?

No need to be frightened, since:

1) God Says:

"For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways​

My Ways, Saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the​

earth, so are My Ways Higher than your ways, and My Thoughts ​

Than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)​

​

2) He Also Says:

A) Proverbs 21:4 "An high look, and a proud heart, and​

the plowing of the wicked, is sin."​

+

B) Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all ​

our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..."​

​

Now, ↑ This ↑ is what is Very Frightening = "In God's Sight," ALL
things that wicked Unbelievers do is sin. Regardless if finite men
might view them as "mighty works." Thus, This Also Is True:

"...Whatsoever is Not of faith Is SIN!" (Romans 14:23b)​

​

Thus, they "were Always Lost," Never "having faith," And thus,
The Righteous Judge, The LORD Jesus Christ Speaking These
Most Devastating Words Ever!:

"Depart From Me, ye workers of Iniquity, I Never KNEW you!" (Mat 7:23)​

​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

On God's Opposite Doctrine Eternal Salvation, He Teaches:

The LORD JESUS CHRIST "Has ALWAYS Known them who Are HIS Own",
who "have faith":

2Ti 2:19a "Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth Sure,​

Having This Seal, The LORD Knoweth them that Are His..."​

+

Eph 1:4a "According as He Hath Chosen us In Him before the​

foundation of the world,.."​

Thus, According To Scripture, there is No such man-made 'middle-of-the-road'
sad teaching of:

"God has never known those whom He has always known." ​

Impossible, Correct?

Amen. More study, if you wish:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

 

[Kroogz]

tell me, it feels like you're trying to trap me into something. so answer this before i answer you.

the Saved, Paul, speaks about that will Fall Away from the Faith, will become Deceived, are these Believers, Paul is discussing, going to Hell?

They are believers. And not going to hell. All believers enter His Kingdom, but those that fall away or become deceived will lose reward,inheritance,crowns, temporal and eternal blessing, ect. And may face harsh discipline.They will be least and naked in His Kingdom. And have shame at the Bema seat of Christ.

John 10:28 His sheep will never perish.

I am not trying to trap you, I read His promise to me that I shall never perish. And I believe Him. You seem to be saying that I can perish? The branch being cut off is me perishing? If this is what you are saying , it nullifies His promise to us.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other

wonder if Jesus KNEW these people who were Saved and Fell Away?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Agreed. I should have payed more attention.

My point is that particular sins are not brought up, because Jesus Christ died for all sin. So what is judged are our deeds, our human works.......That is why religion is so dangerous. A good, moral,upstanding,law abiding life is as filthy rags to God.

Rev 20-12--And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Definition: work
Usage: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

i just look at John.

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

He who believes will never die. But he who does not believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him.

he who hears his word and believes has everlasting life and has passed from judgment to life.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

They are believers. And not going to hell. All believers enter His Kingdom, but those that fall away or become deceived will lose reward,inheritance,crowns, temporal and eternal blessing, ect. And may face harsh discipline.They will be least and naked in His Kingdom. And have shame at the Bema seat of Christ.

John 10:28 His sheep will never perish.

I am not trying to trap you, I read His promise to me that I shall never perish. And I believe Him. You seem to be saying that I can perish? The branch being cut off is me perishing? If this is what you are saying , it nullifies His promise to us.

where does it say they [that fall away from the Faith] are still Saved?

you might as well say go and practice Witchcraft because you have a Promise that not even you can break.

honestly, you are implying by falling away and leaving God and go be the best Sinner ever you still are Saved.

well then, why be Saved then?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

some of this Grace Doctrine literally has fallen out the back end of a horse.

smells like it as well

 

[Kroogz]

where does it say they [that fall away from the Faith] are still Saved?

you might as well say go and practice Witchcraft because you have a Promise that not even you can break.

Can you please answer my question now? You said you would.

The Lord Jesus Christ says that I will never perish. I believe Him. John 10:28

You seem to be saying that the branch being cut off is me perishing? Is this what you are saying?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The Lord Jesus Christ says that I will never perish. I believe Him. John 10:28

you do understand this is TRUE ^

if

you are doing this:

Verse before it:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

as long as you are hearing you are Following.

so, even Jesus shows us another example of us doing something to keep ABIDING/REMAINING in Him.

 

[Kroogz]

you do understand this is TRUE ^

if

you are doing this:

Verse before it:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

as long as you are hearing you are Following.

so, even Jesus shows us another example of us doing something to keep ABIDING/REMAINING in Him.

You did not answer my question. I can't demand it, but I would like to hear your answer.

For me it is a glaring contradiction.

I am one of His sheep. He says I will never perish. If being cut off is me perishing. There is a huge contradiction there.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You did not answer my question. I can't demand it, but I would like to hear your answer.

For me it is a glaring contradiction.

I am one of His sheep. He says I will never perish. If being cut off is me perishing. There is a huge contradiction there.

i am only showing you that Doctrines are made many times from a SINGLE cherry picked Verse, when the Verse before or after clarify the true meaning.

that's why many of the Grace Doctrines are pure Baloney.

it's Single Cherry picked Verse, completely ignoring the Context and content of the Verses surrounding it.


personally, my feelings towards this, is i don't want to test it.
i don't want to Stand before God and say, but i reasoned out through Cherry Picked Verses that I am Saved automatically and yes, i get it, i ignored all Your Commands and Warnings, but i feel this Doctrine is true.

i can only imagine what God would say in return?

also, i showed you where real deal Biblical Scholars and Theologians claim the cut-off end up in Hell.



and to be completely transparent here:
Jesus said those who fall away are not Saved, He said, only the ones who "endures" will be Saved.

so, how can i go against the Words of Jesus, knowing those Verses are together, not a single cherry-picked effort?

 

[Kroogz]

i am only showing you that Doctrines are made many times from a SINGLE cherry picked Verse, when the Verse before or after clarify the true meaning.

that's why many of the Grace Doctrines are pure Baloney.

it's Single Cherry picked Verse, completely ignoring the Context and content of the Verses surrounding it.


personally, my feelings towards this, is i don't want to test it.
i don't want to Stand before God and say, but i reasoned out through Cherry Picked Verses that I am Saved automatically and yes, i get it, i ignored all Your Commands and Warnings, but i feel this Doctrine is true.

i can only imagine what God would say in return?

also, i showed you where real deal Biblical Scholars and Theologians claim the cut-off end up in Hell.



and to be completely transparent here:
Jesus said those who fall away are not Saved, He said, only the ones who "endures" will be Saved.

so, how can i go against the Words of Jesus, knowing those Verses are together, not a single cherry-picked effort?

I really would have appreciated an answer to my question. And I remember giving you 8 or 9 verses to back up my confusion to what it seems you are saying about being cut off.

I cannot get around the contradiction. Sorry.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I really would have appreciated an answer to my question. And I remember giving you 8 or 9 verses to back up my confusion to what it seems you are saying about being cut off.

I cannot get around the contradiction. Sorry.

They all say same thing including the same message before and after are the same as you have eternal life because you hear and follow God.

That is the issue here, I know I am engaging someone sold out on cherry picked Verses.

I only know to do is say, I wish you the best.

I choose to do what Jesus said to do, hear, follow, remain and the next Verses say I have Eternal Life.