You may be right. So maybe? it pertains to fellowship and being cut off from fellowship? Because salvation is clear, direct and simple.(for us)
The Security Of The Believer
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I can;t control anything, all I can do is walk in step with the spirit..
Correct. So the teaching concerning salvation is ancillary. Hence, the takeaway is...the difference between those who believe and those who don't is the bearing of fruit. It is not concerned with falling away.
there's a reason Jesus is saying this.
that's my point.
He only says things to Warn us or Help us.
You are clean because of the word.
Not because we abide
we abide to produce fruit. that does not make us clean, we are already clean
but we can take his warning wrong
Is he warning us to tell us we will lose salvation
or is he warning us to tell us we will not reap the benefits of producing fruit.
i am not talking about Salvation.
but if you, the Branch, is cut off, tossed into the fire.
what has happened?
The branch is cut off.
But he is not cast to hell
there is no more condemnation to those in christ. they will never die, live forever, and have eternal life.
Why would you say it is not about salvation?
here's what Scholars and Theologians claim:
In verse 6, Jesus expands on what He said in verse 2: “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” The unfruitful branch's ultimate end is the Lake of Fire.
In verse 6, Jesus expands on what He said in verse 2: “If anyone does not abide not in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” The unfruitful branch's ultimate end is the Lake of Fire.
In verse 2. The words translated take away, in the greek literally mean to "lift up"
Anyone who understands keeping a vine understands that if a branch is laying on the ground, it can not produce fruit. so the vinedresser LIFTS UP the branch and ties it up. It then starts to produce fruit. This is totally different than the context of verse 6
I would find different bible scholars..
well of course not. when you pick ones who agree with you. You would not doubt them..
It means you are an unbeliever. All believers bear fruit.
An example of what you are referring to is Matthew 7:21-23. They had works, but no fruit. Why? They had no relationship with Jesus...not actually attached to the vine.
And I have seen individual believers produce many types/varieties of fruit.
In many ways, we do control how it is done. He showed us how to do it.
We have to be obeying the right things. And it is pretty simple.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.
Do those things and the rest of the 1600 or so commands will be fulfilled.
but Jesus said the Branch is Connected to Him, He uses the words [IN ME].
so, they are Believers.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit
this is why this makes more sense to me:
22. Many will say to me in that day, 'My Lord, my Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out demons, and have done many mighty works in your name?'
23. And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you, remove yourselves far from me, you workers of evil.'
There is nothing wrong with this understanding...only its application. Those cut off do end up in the lake of fire. But it doesn't state they were ever saved.