So there have been multiple threads debating this view, but I just wanted to share the reasons why many of us believe the prophecies of Daniel 9 have already been fulfilled.
For background and context, I take a Historicist view of eschatology which is the traditional view of the protestant reformers before the counter-reformation offered up the two opposing views of preterism and futurism (with futurism being the current view held by many modern Christians).
A quick and dirty summary of each:
- Preterism = All endtime prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD. The Messiah is currently ruling on His throne.
- Historicism = Endtime prophecies are fulfilled progressively throughout human history, proving that God steers human events.
- Futurism = All endtime prophecies will be fulfilled in the future after a gap period called the church age.
So, generally speaking...
- Preterists take the position that the Messiah currently is ruling the world from His throne in heaven.
- Historicists take the position that we have been in the end times for the last 2k years; everything happening is laid out by God's end-time prophecies.
- Futurists take the position that after the church is raptured away, the clock will continue and the end times will begin.
As I mentioned, the traditional view of eschatology by the protestant reformers was Historicism and their argument was that the Almighty is sovereign, and proof of His sovereignty is knowing exactly what will happen from beginning to end. There is no scenario where He doesn't know, so any prophecy He shares - especially prophecy that principally involves time - will be a complete timeline of events.
For example, The Almighty gave King Nebuchadnezzar this dream in Daniel 2:
Everyone agrees that this was a visual representation of a timeline the Almighty gave to King Neb, starting with Babylon and ending with The Messiah's kingdom. So, it's a complete timeline of human history, with each section representing a world-ruling kingdom until the toes are smashed by the stone from heaven (Messiah).
- Babylon
- Medo-Persia
- Macedonia // Greece
- Rome
- 10 Smaller Mixed Kingdoms
- Messiah's Kingdom
And per the magnificence of the Almighty's imagery, even the characteristics we see from the statue were representative of the kingdoms that rule:
1) Gold was the economy of Babylon
2) There were two arms folded. Medo-Persia was a partnership of two kingdoms, and silver was their economy.
3) With Greece, humanity literally entered into the bronze age
4) The time of Rome was known as the Iron Age...and there were even two legs of the empire: The Byzantine Empire and the Western Roman Empire. Also, notice that this section is the longest section of the statue. And in fulfillment, The Roman Empire experienced by far the longest run.
5) Next, humanity reaches the ten toes which are a mix of clay and iron. Meanwhile, revelation speaks of ten smaller kingdoms prophesied to emerge in the end times. So if we follow the pattern that The Almighty has given, then the ten smaller kingdoms will have characteristics of the Roman Empire and characteristics of "Clay" (the original Hebrew word used was "Arab"). The ten smaller kingdoms will be mixtures of Roman and Arabic influences (Algebra or "Al' jabr ", the basis of math, being one example). Also, the prophecy says the iron/clay mixture never completely combines, meaning that the people of the ten kingdoms will never truly be unified.
NOTE: At no point was this statue described to break until the toes were smashed by the heavenly stone, representing an unbroken timeline of human history as we go from one kingdom age to the next until Messiah.
----
Now, as history will show, both preterism and futurism views were developed by the Catholic Church to counter historicism. The reason why historicism was countered was because the reformers began identifying the Catholic Church as The Great Harlot and the Papacy as the Beast of the Sea. So, during the counter-reformation, two newer views of eschatology began to spread. This brings us to Daniel 9.
Daniel 9
The preterist view holds that all of Daniel 9:24-27 (i.e., The 70 Weeks prophecy) was fulfilled in 70 AD, while the futurist view holds that only 69 weeks have been fulfilled followed by our current pause/break of an indetermate amount of time (never once mentioned to happen by The Almighty or Messiah or any angel), with the 70th week beginning the time of Great Tribulation after the break. If we were to lay out these views using King Neb's statue to represent the timeline each view would look like this:
Preterism - "Humanity is currently in the post-stone period called the kingdom of God, where Messiah rules from heaven."
Futurism - "Humanity is currently in a gap period called the Church Age, and will be raptured away before the end times begin."
Meanwhile, historicists believe that all 70 weeks were fulfilled in 70 AD, leading to the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the people, (both of which are the "desolations" prophesied in Daniel 9:27), and that the land would be devoid of the people who are supposed to be there until the return of the Messiah when He establishes His eternal kingdom on earth. Historicists also believe that the Great Tribulation equates to the time in human history when the nations of the world collectively hated and persecuted the Jews as "murderers of Christ", spanning 1,260 years and directly involving the Papacy.
----
I think this is a good enough intro. Let me know if you have any questions.
Blessings.
For background and context, I take a Historicist view of eschatology which is the traditional view of the protestant reformers before the counter-reformation offered up the two opposing views of preterism and futurism (with futurism being the current view held by many modern Christians).
A quick and dirty summary of each:
- Preterism = All endtime prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD. The Messiah is currently ruling on His throne.
- Historicism = Endtime prophecies are fulfilled progressively throughout human history, proving that God steers human events.
- Futurism = All endtime prophecies will be fulfilled in the future after a gap period called the church age.
So, generally speaking...
- Preterists take the position that the Messiah currently is ruling the world from His throne in heaven.
- Historicists take the position that we have been in the end times for the last 2k years; everything happening is laid out by God's end-time prophecies.
- Futurists take the position that after the church is raptured away, the clock will continue and the end times will begin.
As I mentioned, the traditional view of eschatology by the protestant reformers was Historicism and their argument was that the Almighty is sovereign, and proof of His sovereignty is knowing exactly what will happen from beginning to end. There is no scenario where He doesn't know, so any prophecy He shares - especially prophecy that principally involves time - will be a complete timeline of events.
For example, The Almighty gave King Nebuchadnezzar this dream in Daniel 2:
Everyone agrees that this was a visual representation of a timeline the Almighty gave to King Neb, starting with Babylon and ending with The Messiah's kingdom. So, it's a complete timeline of human history, with each section representing a world-ruling kingdom until the toes are smashed by the stone from heaven (Messiah).
- Babylon
- Medo-Persia
- Macedonia // Greece
- Rome
- 10 Smaller Mixed Kingdoms
- Messiah's Kingdom
And per the magnificence of the Almighty's imagery, even the characteristics we see from the statue were representative of the kingdoms that rule:
1) Gold was the economy of Babylon
2) There were two arms folded. Medo-Persia was a partnership of two kingdoms, and silver was their economy.
3) With Greece, humanity literally entered into the bronze age
4) The time of Rome was known as the Iron Age...and there were even two legs of the empire: The Byzantine Empire and the Western Roman Empire. Also, notice that this section is the longest section of the statue. And in fulfillment, The Roman Empire experienced by far the longest run.
5) Next, humanity reaches the ten toes which are a mix of clay and iron. Meanwhile, revelation speaks of ten smaller kingdoms prophesied to emerge in the end times. So if we follow the pattern that The Almighty has given, then the ten smaller kingdoms will have characteristics of the Roman Empire and characteristics of "Clay" (the original Hebrew word used was "Arab"). The ten smaller kingdoms will be mixtures of Roman and Arabic influences (Algebra or "Al' jabr ", the basis of math, being one example). Also, the prophecy says the iron/clay mixture never completely combines, meaning that the people of the ten kingdoms will never truly be unified.
NOTE: At no point was this statue described to break until the toes were smashed by the heavenly stone, representing an unbroken timeline of human history as we go from one kingdom age to the next until Messiah.
----
Now, as history will show, both preterism and futurism views were developed by the Catholic Church to counter historicism. The reason why historicism was countered was because the reformers began identifying the Catholic Church as The Great Harlot and the Papacy as the Beast of the Sea. So, during the counter-reformation, two newer views of eschatology began to spread. This brings us to Daniel 9.
Daniel 9
The preterist view holds that all of Daniel 9:24-27 (i.e., The 70 Weeks prophecy) was fulfilled in 70 AD, while the futurist view holds that only 69 weeks have been fulfilled followed by our current pause/break of an indetermate amount of time (never once mentioned to happen by The Almighty or Messiah or any angel), with the 70th week beginning the time of Great Tribulation after the break. If we were to lay out these views using King Neb's statue to represent the timeline each view would look like this:
Preterism - "Humanity is currently in the post-stone period called the kingdom of God, where Messiah rules from heaven."
Futurism - "Humanity is currently in a gap period called the Church Age, and will be raptured away before the end times begin."
Meanwhile, historicists believe that all 70 weeks were fulfilled in 70 AD, leading to the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the people, (both of which are the "desolations" prophesied in Daniel 9:27), and that the land would be devoid of the people who are supposed to be there until the return of the Messiah when He establishes His eternal kingdom on earth. Historicists also believe that the Great Tribulation equates to the time in human history when the nations of the world collectively hated and persecuted the Jews as "murderers of Christ", spanning 1,260 years and directly involving the Papacy.
----
I think this is a good enough intro. Let me know if you have any questions.
Blessings.
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