He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
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“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:14-18
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:14-18
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got my redbull lol and now looking at Romans 9.
i was right about this being about the Jews and those who are not actually Jews.
meaning, the Jews still have the Promise, why we see them Saved in Tribulation, but then it speaks of those who perverted the lineage at times like Esau and such.
so, let's do as you suggest and tackle the Gentile portion. let me read it again.
i was right about this being about the Jews and those who are not actually Jews.
meaning, the Jews still have the Promise, why we see them Saved in Tribulation, but then it speaks of those who perverted the lineage at times like Esau and such.
so, let's do as you suggest and tackle the Gentile portion. let me read it again.
24 whom he also called, us not only from among the Jews, but also from among the Gentiles,
25 as he also says in Hosea: I will call that my people which was not my people, and her beloved, that was not beloved;
so, Verse 24 is the fulfillment of Verse 25.
i don't know then technically it should be called predestination or the fulfillment of God's Own Prophecy.
the good thing is, God, made a way for Everyone.
so, let's look at the Verses before 24.
and, it's just Reasons why God grafted the Gentiles in.
so the question here, is this predestination or is this the Fulfillment of Prophecy, which the 2 are NOT the same.
this reminds me a bit like Acts Chapter 2
25 as he also says in Hosea: I will call that my people which was not my people, and her beloved, that was not beloved;
so, Verse 24 is the fulfillment of Verse 25.
i don't know then technically it should be called predestination or the fulfillment of God's Own Prophecy.
the good thing is, God, made a way for Everyone.
so, let's look at the Verses before 24.
and, it's just Reasons why God grafted the Gentiles in.
so the question here, is this predestination or is this the Fulfillment of Prophecy, which the 2 are NOT the same.
this reminds me a bit like Acts Chapter 2
the one true fact here, this is definitely Prophecy being fulfilled.
if you wish to believe it's predestination, i can't argue that.
i can only argue this is Prophecy Fulfilled and we know the general rules that surround Prophecy...it's always prophesied at this time and fulfilled at a separate later time.
if you wish to believe it's predestination, i can't argue that.
i can only argue this is Prophecy Fulfilled and we know the general rules that surround Prophecy...it's always prophesied at this time and fulfilled at a separate later time.
25 as he also says in Hosea: I will call that my people which was not my people, and her beloved, that was not beloved;
so, Verse 24 is the fulfillment of Verse 25.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I follow. With the "I will call them my people which were not my people", God is referring to the elect. The earthly Jews were His people. God made/makes the elect into a new people - those who become the new Israel - spiritual Israel.
No, I don't think that conclusion can stand the scrutiny of the prior verses I posted. They are saying exactly the opposite of that.
I think that election is not only the fulfillment of scripture, but it is the foundation of scripture.
but Paul follows the Gentiles being now brought into the fold with the Prophecy of Hosea.
for the sake of whatever...let's get a 3rd independent viewpoint here:
i just point blank asked this question and have copied/pasted for you:
is Romans 9:25 speaking about Romans 9:24?
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Verse 25 is the continuation of the previous sentence in verse 24 when he was talking about calling not only Jews, but also Gentiles.Apr 18, 2019
^
and then i looked at the general listing:
same thing
for the sake of whatever...let's get a 3rd independent viewpoint here:
i just point blank asked this question and have copied/pasted for you:
Filters and Topics
About 155,000 results (0.51 seconds)
Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
Verse 25 is the continuation of the previous sentence in verse 24 when he was talking about calling not only Jews, but also Gentiles.Apr 18, 2019
^
and then i looked at the general listing:
same thing
interesting, now the page is loading faster when i ask same question:
About 155,000 results (0.32 seconds)
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Featured snippet from the web
Verse 25 is the continuation of the previous sentence in verse 24 when he was talking about calling not only Jews, but also Gentiles.Apr 18, 2019
first try: About 155,000 results (0.51 seconds)
it's pretty confident in that answer.
About 155,000 results (0.32 seconds)
Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
Verse 25 is the continuation of the previous sentence in verse 24 when he was talking about calling not only Jews, but also Gentiles.Apr 18, 2019
first try: About 155,000 results (0.51 seconds)
it's pretty confident in that answer.
i am saying i believe this is the Fulfillment of Prophecy.
i don't think this this about predestination...but...i am not opposed should someone believe that.
but Paul is clear.
what i am saying, if this was the actual Scroll that Paul wrote on.
there's No Chapters and Verses included.
so, it's [[continual thought]].
understanding that this is a continual thought, means, it is 100% about Fulfillment of Prophecy.
but all Prophecies are claimed this day and then take place many years later. it's a lot like predestination, but not predestination.
but i am not opposed if you want to believe predestination, i just do not believe this is that.
i believe it is all about Prophecy being Fulfilled.
i don't think this this about predestination...but...i am not opposed should someone believe that.
but Paul is clear.
what i am saying, if this was the actual Scroll that Paul wrote on.
there's No Chapters and Verses included.
so, it's [[continual thought]].
understanding that this is a continual thought, means, it is 100% about Fulfillment of Prophecy.
but all Prophecies are claimed this day and then take place many years later. it's a lot like predestination, but not predestination.
but i am not opposed if you want to believe predestination, i just do not believe this is that.
i believe it is all about Prophecy being Fulfilled.
“Water Baptism is never associated with either Salvation or receiving the Holy Spirit.”
brother did you know John saying this
“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
Matthew 3:11 KJV
was foretelling pentocost ? And was fulfilled right here
“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:2-4 KJV
John was saying in baptizing you for repentance and remission of sins , he will later give you the Holy Spirit.
Now please consider this Jesus was baptized in water and received the spirit as an example of what was later of you read through all these scriptures you may consider some things
“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mark 1:9-11 KJV
Now let’s look at baptism after Jesus died and rose and the church received the Holy Ghost at pentocost to see if they were baptizing in water after pentocost
remeber the commission preach the gospel to everyone whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved (mark 16 )
look what they we’re doing
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
Now my simple argument is we’re they baptizing in water ? Here’s another example With gentiles and Peter
Just like at pentocost
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-48 KJV
Truthfully the only doctrine for baptism is baptism for repentance and remission of sins Jesus poured out his spirit at pentocost but this never changed or ceased baptism for remission of sins that’s necassary we have to have our sins remitted that’s all baptism ever claims to be in scripture
air is what God said to do to have your sins remitted you believe the gospel then are baptized into Christ the holt ghost is promised in Jesus words to believers that’s not baptism baptism is very well explained and exhibited
a baptism is always associated with water they just dot say baptism “in water “
Why would we want to change baptism ? Or make it less than jesus made it ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
we can say this isn’t “ water baptism “ but then why did they keep baptizing in water ? Didn’t they understand baptism in water for remission in Jesus name became irrelevant ? Why did Peter command water baptism to the gentiles ? Why did Philip preach Jesus and then baptize the Ethiopian in water ? How many baptisms are there really ?
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
now ve offered this verse before to someone and they explained thisnosnt talkin about baptism in water …..but that means Peter commanded an erroneous baptism in water and Philip was practicing a false baptism in that ole pesky water
If there’s be baptism and they all were baptized in water for remission and they continue practicing baptism in water for remission of sins ………why do we need to not believe that baptism is just baptism like it says and that would explain why for two thousand years christians have been getting baptized in water for remission of sins in Jesus name
So was Peter commanding an erroneous baptism in water ?
Or does baptism involve water ? One has to be true
probably not a great post I wrote but to simplify Paul says there’s one baptism . Jesus was baptized in water all of his disciples were baptized in water the church baptized in water after pentocost Peter commands water baptism for gentiles who received the Holy Spirit
the evidence is overwhelming that the same baptism Jesus partook of , the same baptism God sent into the world to prepare us for Christ , the same baptism Peter commanded for remission of sins in Jesus name is baptism and when we say I’m going to get baptized we don’t have to say “ water baptized “ because baptism is and has always been performed in water
thats Gods design who sent the Baptist into the world to prepare them for the gospel by remission of sins and then continued baptism through his apostles
i think it’s worth considering if they were baptizing in water before and after the cross for remission of sins and we’re also told by them there’s one baptism that baptism is what it says it is and it is tied to salvstion because Jesus toed it together and offers salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-
if I believe what the Bible says about baptism for remission of sins I’ll automatically want to go get baptized because it’s a gift and a blessing of grace that we can accept Christs death for our sins and take his name upon ourselves remission of sins is a blessing
brother did you know John saying this
“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
Matthew 3:11 KJV
was foretelling pentocost ? And was fulfilled right here
“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:2-4 KJV
John was saying in baptizing you for repentance and remission of sins , he will later give you the Holy Spirit.
Now please consider this Jesus was baptized in water and received the spirit as an example of what was later of you read through all these scriptures you may consider some things
“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mark 1:9-11 KJV
Now let’s look at baptism after Jesus died and rose and the church received the Holy Ghost at pentocost to see if they were baptizing in water after pentocost
remeber the commission preach the gospel to everyone whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved (mark 16 )
look what they we’re doing
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
Now my simple argument is we’re they baptizing in water ? Here’s another example With gentiles and Peter
Just like at pentocost
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-48 KJV
Truthfully the only doctrine for baptism is baptism for repentance and remission of sins Jesus poured out his spirit at pentocost but this never changed or ceased baptism for remission of sins that’s necassary we have to have our sins remitted that’s all baptism ever claims to be in scripture
air is what God said to do to have your sins remitted you believe the gospel then are baptized into Christ the holt ghost is promised in Jesus words to believers that’s not baptism baptism is very well explained and exhibited
a baptism is always associated with water they just dot say baptism “in water “
Why would we want to change baptism ? Or make it less than jesus made it ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
we can say this isn’t “ water baptism “ but then why did they keep baptizing in water ? Didn’t they understand baptism in water for remission in Jesus name became irrelevant ? Why did Peter command water baptism to the gentiles ? Why did Philip preach Jesus and then baptize the Ethiopian in water ? How many baptisms are there really ?
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
now ve offered this verse before to someone and they explained thisnosnt talkin about baptism in water …..but that means Peter commanded an erroneous baptism in water and Philip was practicing a false baptism in that ole pesky water
If there’s be baptism and they all were baptized in water for remission and they continue practicing baptism in water for remission of sins ………why do we need to not believe that baptism is just baptism like it says and that would explain why for two thousand years christians have been getting baptized in water for remission of sins in Jesus name
So was Peter commanding an erroneous baptism in water ?
Or does baptism involve water ? One has to be true
probably not a great post I wrote but to simplify Paul says there’s one baptism . Jesus was baptized in water all of his disciples were baptized in water the church baptized in water after pentocost Peter commands water baptism for gentiles who received the Holy Spirit
the evidence is overwhelming that the same baptism Jesus partook of , the same baptism God sent into the world to prepare us for Christ , the same baptism Peter commanded for remission of sins in Jesus name is baptism and when we say I’m going to get baptized we don’t have to say “ water baptized “ because baptism is and has always been performed in water
thats Gods design who sent the Baptist into the world to prepare them for the gospel by remission of sins and then continued baptism through his apostles
i think it’s worth considering if they were baptizing in water before and after the cross for remission of sins and we’re also told by them there’s one baptism that baptism is what it says it is and it is tied to salvstion because Jesus toed it together and offers salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-
if I believe what the Bible says about baptism for remission of sins I’ll automatically want to go get baptized because it’s a gift and a blessing of grace that we can accept Christs death for our sins and take his name upon ourselves remission of sins is a blessing
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The prophecy wasn't made by Paul in Romans, it originated in the OT, but with Paul through God, quoting and elaborating upon it.
But isn't the question not whether or not it is called prophecy (or something else), but of whether or not we understand it correctly? The doctrine of election can in a sense be termed as being prophesy, but more fundamentally, it was established by, and is the manifestation of, God's will, the result of which will, has been, is being, and will be fulfilled until the end of time.
But isn't the question not whether or not it is called prophecy (or something else), but of whether or not we understand it correctly? The doctrine of election can in a sense be termed as being prophesy, but more fundamentally, it was established by, and is the manifestation of, God's will, the result of which will, has been, is being, and will be fulfilled until the end of time.
