Would Jesus drink Alcohol?

[tourist]

Who murdered Jesus, CS1?

I did by committing sin. Said I was sorry, though.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I haven't read every page of this thread, so maybe I missed it until now.
There is an argument I've heard from many pastors who speak with confidence and conviction about wine/ juice preservation in ancient times.
I think my former pastor must've consulted Rudolph the red nosed bartender Bible commentary for fact checking. Perhaps he read about it on Snopes. "Ancient technology did not allow fruit juice to be preserved except by use of fermentation."
That was his go to for Bible interpretation for all the passages referring to the fruit of the vine.

I'm no distillery chemist, but do have a vineyard. My uncle had a vineyard and my grandfather tended vineyards in Italy before coming to America. My dad preserved grape juice and none of it was fermented. It would keep for years in the "wine cellar."
He didn't need to use any Benzoic Acid or other preservative chemicals. He used a modern technology that was never available to ancient civilizations. Write this down Pastor Bourbon because I might not go to all the trouble of doing a video series on boiling.

Believe it or not, there were even ways to make potable water!
There were ways to sterilize, filter and preserve water. It must've been from ancient aliens because man was so darn primitive that there's no way they could have ever known how.

🤢🤮🚱🛸👽👽🚰😲😄

 

[Ted01]

Preserving fruit products has been around for a long, long, time.... no aliens were involved, as far as I know.
It's the same process that people use for...guess what?... wait for it...

preserving fruit.

Regardless, I don't think that they referred to preserved fruit juice as "wine".

 

[NightTwister]

Actually, God does prefer we eat unleavened bread

“What God has declared clean you must not call common”

 

[John146]

Man take drink.
Drink take drink.
Drink take man.

 

[John146]

Before anyone takes a drink of alcohol, they know that it can be destructive. They know the drink can cause them to lose their senses, cause them to act and do things they would normally never do in their right mind. Sooner or later, it will mock you. The cost of drinking is overwhelming, the destruction, broken families, deaths, pain, suffering, etc. What has us under the delusion that we can handle it?

If at the least, I never want to cause someone to stumble. You never know when someone may ask you the question, "Hey, do you drink?" I always want to answer with a no, not one drop.

 

[Poinsetta]

Before anyone takes a drink of alcohol, they know that it can be destructive. They know the drink can cause them to lose their senses, cause them to act and do things they would normally never do in their right mind. Sooner or later, it will mock you. The cost of drinking is overwhelming, the destruction, broken families, deaths, pain, suffering, etc. What has us under the delusion that we can handle it?

If at the least, I never want to cause someone to stumble. You never know when someone may ask you the question, "Hey, do you drink?" I always want to answer with a no, not one drop.

you’re so right about this brother

 

[Braweh]

Braweh , one of the particularity of the pharisee is that there were very strict, too strict and would not change their minds even when proven wrong. You are acting now in the same way, as the pharisees that JESUS detested. You say Jesus will not or would not drink wine or does not approve of wine you are wrong. Jesus words are true. I have written here on this thread the proof of what I say yet you will not listen. here they are again;

Jhn 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jhn 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
Jhn 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
Jhn 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew
here is another one that you missed in your bible;

Isa 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

The proof you requested for the 10th time.

Peace

That's not proof of anything, TKCS.

I've already stated that the word 'wine' has two meanings in the Bible.

Talk about all of you ignoring facts and refusing to accept things.

These verses speak of grape juice.
Lam. 2:11-12

This verse speaks of alcohol.
Prov. 20:1

Now, do you SEE that they both use the same word 'wine' yet have a dual meaning or is there something wrong with your visual perception?

Sincere question.

I'm just curious what the disconnect is.

 

[John146]

That's not proof of anything, TKCS.

I've already stated that the word 'wine' has two meanings in the Bible.

Talk about all of you ignoring facts and refusing to accept things.

These verses speak of grape juice.
Lam. 2:11-12

This verse speaks of alcohol.
Prov. 20:1

Now, do you SEE that they both use the same word 'wine' yet have a dual meaning or is there something wrong with your visual perception?

Sincere question.

I'm just curious what the disconnect is.

Isaiah 65:8 "Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."

New wine can be made by squeezing a bunch of grapes into a cup according to the below verse.

Genesis 40:11 "And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand."

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Preserving fruit products has been around for a long, long, time.... no aliens were involved, as far as I know.
It's the same process that people use for...guess what?... wait for it...

preserving fruit.

Regardless, I don't think that they referred to preserved fruit juice as "wine".

I was joking Ted. The Watcher posted a paper on juice preservation. I was backing him up on that because too many pastors trust commentaries as authoritative on all subjects. The basic fallacies get repeated often enough to become dogmas.

Besides, the atheists and new agers like to give aliens credit for everything that they have trouble explaining.

 

[Fundaamental]

OK, so now... post scriptures that say it was alcohol He was drinking....

You cannot prove from scripture Jesus was drinking alcoholic wine or freshly prepared wine which was not alcoholic due to not having fermented yet which is still called "wine" since it is the fruit of the vine.

best thing I've heard you say yet

 

[Fundaamental]

Never.

Jesus would not, and did not, ingest alcohol.

Jesus is all about purity of body and soul. There is nothing at all pure about alcohol. It is toxic to the human body. It is poison. It is great as an antiseptic, sure. It kills microorganisms and bacteria that it comes into contact with.

Good for human ingestion? Not so much. Take a good look at the fermentation process and think again if it makes any sense at all that Jesus would make, or serve, alcohol to anyone.

Alcohol is literally the feces of the yeast microorganism. The yeast consumes the sugar of fruits/vegetables and excretes alcohol. It also flatulates carbon dioxide so the carbonation, all the little bubbles in wine, is the gas that exits the yeast's rectum.

Does this sound like a holy and pure substance that Christ would enjoy or give to many people to ingest after they had all "well drunken"?

The fact is that wine in the Bible is referred to by a single English word when the original language used multiple words to refer to what we call wine and also what we call grape juice (unfermented).

Jesus never drank alcohol and what He actually made was pure, fresh grape juice from water - as much of a miracle as creating alcohol, if not more so.

Contrary to popular belief, the Bible speaks negatively of ingesting alcohol in many places.

George Cruikshank's painting "The Worship of Bacchus" was a very well known and sought after work in its day. It depicts how society uses alcohol and is destroyed by it. Bacchus is the ancient Greek god of wine and intoxication.

Here is a great link about the painting and what it was all about:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1120541/

I know many will automatically jump the gun with this thread and assume that Jesus never just drank grapes, but the truth is there is no proof that he did or didn't, either way if your for the idea or against it. There's no way to prove it so the discussion is floored in one sense.

But I do know the devastating consequences of drinking alcohol, so you would you have to favour Jesus drinking grapes, but still there's no proof of that.

But I do know that every time you drink alcohol it actually kills some of the white healthy blood cells in your body and at that moment untill there expelled from the liver when you pee there highly susceptible to being infected by harmful bacteria in your body that is sleeping. Which then unfortunately those white blood cells which are now switched of as a result of drinking alcohol can turn cancerous which then can develop into a full blown cancer tumor

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

“What God has declared clean you must not call common”

Here's how some make clean water.


Point-of-use water purification using clay pot water filters and copper mesh
AJ Varkey*; MD Dlamini

Department of Physics, University of Swaziland, Private Bag 4, Kwaluseni M201, Swaziland
ABSTRACT

Lack of clean water for use by rural communities in developing countries is of great concern globally. Contaminated water causes water-borne diseases such as diarrhoea, which often lead to deaths, children being the most vulnerable. Therefore, the need to intensify research on point-of-use (POU) water purification techniques cannot be overemphasized. In this work, clay pot water filters (CPWFs) were fabricated using terracotta clay and sawdust. The sawdust was ground and sieved using 300, 600 and 900 μιη sieves. The clay and sawdust were mixed in the ratios 1:1 and 1:2, by volume. Pots were then made, dried and fired in a furnace at 850oC. Raw water collected from nearby rivers was filtered using the pots. The raw and filtered water samples were then tested for E. coli, total coliforms, total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity, cations and anions. The 600 μιη pot had the capacity to destroy E. coli completely from the raw water, whereas the 900 μm pot reduced it by 99.4%. The 600 μm and 900 μm pots could reduce the total coliform concentration by 99.3% and 98.3%, respectively. An attempt was also made to investigate the germicidal action of copper on the coliforms in raw water, with a view to utilising it in the CPWFs. Results showed that 10 g of copper, in the form of mesh made of thin wire of diameter 0.65 mm, had the capacity to completely eliminate E. coli, by immersing it in 300 ml of raw water for 5 h, and total coliforms, by immersing it for 10 h. Subsequently, copper was added to the CPWF by placing the mesh in the receptacle of the CPWF. Tests showed that copper could destroy any remaining E. coli in the filtered water, rendering the CPWF a completely viable POU technique for producing clean water. All other critical parameters such as total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity and ions in the filtered water were also within acceptable levels for drinking water quality. The filtration rate of the pot was also measured as a function of grain size of the sawdust and height of the water column in it. The filtration rate was found to increase with grain size and height in all of the pots.

Certain metals have antiseptic properties.

 

[NightTwister]

Here's how some make clean water.


Point-of-use water purification using clay pot water filters and copper mesh
AJ Varkey*; MD Dlamini

Department of Physics, University of Swaziland, Private Bag 4, Kwaluseni M201, Swaziland
ABSTRACT

Lack of clean water for use by rural communities in developing countries is of great concern globally. Contaminated water causes water-borne diseases such as diarrhoea, which often lead to deaths, children being the most vulnerable. Therefore, the need to intensify research on point-of-use (POU) water purification techniques cannot be overemphasized. In this work, clay pot water filters (CPWFs) were fabricated using terracotta clay and sawdust. The sawdust was ground and sieved using 300, 600 and 900 μιη sieves. The clay and sawdust were mixed in the ratios 1:1 and 1:2, by volume. Pots were then made, dried and fired in a furnace at 850oC. Raw water collected from nearby rivers was filtered using the pots. The raw and filtered water samples were then tested for E. coli, total coliforms, total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity, cations and anions. The 600 μιη pot had the capacity to destroy E. coli completely from the raw water, whereas the 900 μm pot reduced it by 99.4%. The 600 μm and 900 μm pots could reduce the total coliform concentration by 99.3% and 98.3%, respectively. An attempt was also made to investigate the germicidal action of copper on the coliforms in raw water, with a view to utilising it in the CPWFs. Results showed that 10 g of copper, in the form of mesh made of thin wire of diameter 0.65 mm, had the capacity to completely eliminate E. coli, by immersing it in 300 ml of raw water for 5 h, and total coliforms, by immersing it for 10 h. Subsequently, copper was added to the CPWF by placing the mesh in the receptacle of the CPWF. Tests showed that copper could destroy any remaining E. coli in the filtered water, rendering the CPWF a completely viable POU technique for producing clean water. All other critical parameters such as total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity and ions in the filtered water were also within acceptable levels for drinking water quality. The filtration rate of the pot was also measured as a function of grain size of the sawdust and height of the water column in it. The filtration rate was found to increase with grain size and height in all of the pots.

Certain metals have antiseptic properties.

Here's how some make clean water.


Point-of-use water purification using clay pot water filters and copper mesh
AJ Varkey*; MD Dlamini

Department of Physics, University of Swaziland, Private Bag 4, Kwaluseni M201, Swaziland
ABSTRACT

Lack of clean water for use by rural communities in developing countries is of great concern globally. Contaminated water causes water-borne diseases such as diarrhoea, which often lead to deaths, children being the most vulnerable. Therefore, the need to intensify research on point-of-use (POU) water purification techniques cannot be overemphasized. In this work, clay pot water filters (CPWFs) were fabricated using terracotta clay and sawdust. The sawdust was ground and sieved using 300, 600 and 900 μιη sieves. The clay and sawdust were mixed in the ratios 1:1 and 1:2, by volume. Pots were then made, dried and fired in a furnace at 850oC. Raw water collected from nearby rivers was filtered using the pots. The raw and filtered water samples were then tested for E. coli, total coliforms, total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity, cations and anions. The 600 μιη pot had the capacity to destroy E. coli completely from the raw water, whereas the 900 μm pot reduced it by 99.4%. The 600 μm and 900 μm pots could reduce the total coliform concentration by 99.3% and 98.3%, respectively. An attempt was also made to investigate the germicidal action of copper on the coliforms in raw water, with a view to utilising it in the CPWFs. Results showed that 10 g of copper, in the form of mesh made of thin wire of diameter 0.65 mm, had the capacity to completely eliminate E. coli, by immersing it in 300 ml of raw water for 5 h, and total coliforms, by immersing it for 10 h. Subsequently, copper was added to the CPWF by placing the mesh in the receptacle of the CPWF. Tests showed that copper could destroy any remaining E. coli in the filtered water, rendering the CPWF a completely viable POU technique for producing clean water. All other critical parameters such as total hardness, turbidity, electrical conductivity and ions in the filtered water were also within acceptable levels for drinking water quality. The filtration rate of the pot was also measured as a function of grain size of the sawdust and height of the water column in it. The filtration rate was found to increase with grain size and height in all of the pots.

Certain metals have antiseptic properties.

You clearly missed the point of my comment.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

You clearly missed the point of my comment.

I know your reference refers in context to eating of meats that Jews considered unclean.
I was posting the article on how to purify water when I saw yours and thought it was still on the main subject. I was reminded of One belief that many make to "prove " that water in ancient times was unpotable and therefore require alcoholic beverages to survive. I have friends that use clay pots like those described, to purify their toxic tap water. Some are better than others. The tech was available for use in every part of the world throughout history.

 

[Fundaamental]

I haven't read every page of this thread, so maybe I missed it until now.
There is an argument I've heard from many pastors who speak with confidence and conviction about wine/ juice preservation in ancient times.
I think my former pastor must've consulted Rudolph the red nosed bartender Bible commentary for fact checking. Perhaps he read about it on Snopes. "Ancient technology did not allow fruit juice to be preserved except by use of fermentation."
That was his go to for Bible interpretation for all the passages referring to the fruit of the vine.

I'm no distillery chemist, but do have a vineyard. My uncle had a vineyard and my grandfather tended vineyards in Italy before coming to America. My dad preserved grape juice and none of it was fermented. It would keep for years in the "wine cellar."
He didn't need to use any Benzoic Acid or other preservative chemicals. He used a modern technology that was never available to ancient civilizations. Write this down Pastor Bourbon because I might not go to all the trouble of doing a video series on boiling.

Believe it or not, there were even ways to make potable water!
There were ways to sterilize, filter and preserve water. It must've been from ancient aliens because man was so darn primitive that there's no way they could have ever known how.

🤢🤮🚱🛸👽👽🚰😲😄

any fruit can be preserved without the need of fermentation.

It's just freshly squeezed and then sealed in vacuum with salt..

Nature speaks to us and tells us the real reason for fermentation,

I believe that sugar has the ability to help breakdown soil so that new roots can grow and so leaves and loose wood can be broken down more easy. So that new seeds have a better chance of growing in soil. Because it can be hard for you seeds to break soil down.

When a tree or plants drops it's fruit onto the ground. The fruit will naturally start to ferment, then after a while then seeps in to the ground, this then kicks of a chemical reaction in the soil, where by new seeds that also drop at the same time as the fruits have a better chance of growing.

For the plant it's better if this happens as more plants can produce more soil.

Unfortunately quite a lot of daft wild animals can stop this process as they eat the fruits as there fermenting, they get drunk and think they must have died and gone to heaven, and of course come back for more lol

 

[NightTwister]

I know your reference refers in context to eating of meats that Jews considered unclean.
I was posting the article on how to purify water when I saw yours and thought it was still on the main subject. I was reminded of One belief that many make to "prove " that water in ancient times was unpotable and therefore require alcoholic beverages to survive. I have friends that use clay pots like those described, to purify their toxic tap water. Some are better than others. The tech was available for use in every part of the world throughout history.

I use a charcoal filter for my water. Fits perfectly into the refrigerator.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

That's not proof of anything, TKCS.

I've already stated that the word 'wine' has two meanings in the Bible.

Talk about all of you ignoring facts and refusing to accept things.

These verses speak of grape juice.
Lam. 2:11-12

This verse speaks of alcohol.
Prov. 20:1

Now, do you SEE that they both use the same word 'wine' yet have a dual meaning or is there something wrong with your visual perception?

Sincere question.

I'm just curious what the disconnect is.

sorry, I have wasted enough time with this non issue, no matter what I and others say you will not listen.

 

[Fundaamental]

sorry, I have wasted enough time with this non issue, no matter what I and others say you will not listen.

you should never be discouraged and take every opportunity to discuss Jesus as a blessing no matter how much your patience is tested. Even if it means waiting a while before you respond.

The reason I say this is because I know the ways of our adversary who would want you take this direction.. just a friendly gesture

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

you should never be discouraged and take every opportunity to discuss Jesus as a blessing no matter how much your patience is tested. Even if it means waiting a while before you respond.

The reason I say this is because I know the ways of our adversary who would want you take this direction.. just a friendly gesture

the scripture is clear and some people refuse it, what else can I do, I have quoted proper scripture, wine is defined as a fermented bevrage from grapes or other fruits, grape juice is not mentioned in the scripture i quoted, people drank wind then it is well known.

Peace.