What if God had written IN STONE?
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we need to remember that Exodus 26 comes before Exodus 20.
God first proved the disobedience and unbelief of Israel by giving the sabbath and manna. only after this was entered into the record did He give them a law, and the specific law He gave them was not accidental but exactly the law they deserved and needed.
we also need to remember that Deuteronomy calls the decalogue explicitly a covenant, and that Zechariah, Matthew, Galatians, Romans and Hebrews are all equally explicit that the Christian is not under that covenant.
"with a change in priesthood there is necessarily a change in law"
this doesn't mean righteousness changes. it means what we are judged by, and what is required of us, does.
God first proved the disobedience and unbelief of Israel by giving the sabbath and manna. only after this was entered into the record did He give them a law, and the specific law He gave them was not accidental but exactly the law they deserved and needed.
we also need to remember that Deuteronomy calls the decalogue explicitly a covenant, and that Zechariah, Matthew, Galatians, Romans and Hebrews are all equally explicit that the Christian is not under that covenant.
"with a change in priesthood there is necessarily a change in law"
this doesn't mean righteousness changes. it means what we are judged by, and what is required of us, does.
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EXODUS:
Chapter 20:
א וַיְדַבֵּר אֱלֹהִים, אֵת כָּל-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה לֵאמֹר1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
ב אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי.2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
but look carefully at Chapter 21:
א וְאֵלֶּה, הַמִּשְׁפָּטִים, אֲשֶׁר תָּשִׂים, לִפְנֵיהֶם.1 Now these are the ordinances which thou shalt set before them.
ב כִּי תִקְנֶה עֶבֶד עִבְרִי, שֵׁשׁ שָׁנִים יַעֲבֹד; וּבַשְּׁבִעִת--יֵצֵא לַחָפְשִׁי, חִנָּם.2 If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
First Commandment: 10 Commandments
I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
First Ordinance: LAW
If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
Anyone who thinks the Commandments are the LAW, does not understand the Hebrew Language at all!
Chapter 20:
א וַיְדַבֵּר אֱלֹהִים, אֵת כָּל-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה לֵאמֹר1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
ב אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי.2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
but look carefully at Chapter 21:
א וְאֵלֶּה, הַמִּשְׁפָּטִים, אֲשֶׁר תָּשִׂים, לִפְנֵיהֶם.1 Now these are the ordinances which thou shalt set before them.
ב כִּי תִקְנֶה עֶבֶד עִבְרִי, שֵׁשׁ שָׁנִים יַעֲבֹד; וּבַשְּׁבִעִת--יֵצֵא לַחָפְשִׁי, חִנָּם.2 If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
First Commandment: 10 Commandments
I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
First Ordinance: LAW
If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
Anyone who thinks the Commandments are the LAW, does not understand the Hebrew Language at all!
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Jewish Law is not only the 10 Commandments but all the other laws God have them, too, all based on the Shema and Leviticus 19.
Christian "law" is what God-Christ declared a "new" commandment ((thus making the old obsolete, per Hebrews 8:13)), to love one another as Christ has loved us.
this is not in conflict with Jewish Law. but it doesn't include all the things Jewish Law requires, for example the ceremonial part of the decalogue, ritual physical sabbath observation, and it transcends all works by being based in the non-physical requirements of faith and love, rather than the physical requirements of works and obedience of the flesh.
this does not make the Christian lawless not is an excuse for sin: it makes us free, and it gives us the spirit of love and gratitude instead of the spirit of dread and fear and vanity, by which we go forward striving to do good things.
Christian "law" is what God-Christ declared a "new" commandment ((thus making the old obsolete, per Hebrews 8:13)), to love one another as Christ has loved us.
this is not in conflict with Jewish Law. but it doesn't include all the things Jewish Law requires, for example the ceremonial part of the decalogue, ritual physical sabbath observation, and it transcends all works by being based in the non-physical requirements of faith and love, rather than the physical requirements of works and obedience of the flesh.
this does not make the Christian lawless not is an excuse for sin: it makes us free, and it gives us the spirit of love and gratitude instead of the spirit of dread and fear and vanity, by which we go forward striving to do good things.
no, Jesus says the basis is two obscure verses in Deuteronomy 6 and Leviticus 19, which 10-Commandments-only-ism calls 'a different law, a bad law'
But the Law of the Sinai covenant is one indivisible law, as we saw in James, who referred to Leviticus 19 'do not show favoritism' to prove that breaking any part of the Law makes a person guilty of all of it, and this is not the law the Christian is under, as we saw in Romans when Paul referred to Exodus 20 'do not covet' as an example when he tells us we have died to the law in order to belong to God, so that the law has no jurisdiction over us anymore, demonstrating that the 10 Commandments are definitely not the gospel nor the basis of Christianity nor are Christians under them or judged by them.
But the Law of the Sinai covenant is one indivisible law, as we saw in James, who referred to Leviticus 19 'do not show favoritism' to prove that breaking any part of the Law makes a person guilty of all of it, and this is not the law the Christian is under, as we saw in Romans when Paul referred to Exodus 20 'do not covet' as an example when he tells us we have died to the law in order to belong to God, so that the law has no jurisdiction over us anymore, demonstrating that the 10 Commandments are definitely not the gospel nor the basis of Christianity nor are Christians under them or judged by them.
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some say Israel is no longer God's chosen people, that all the promises made to them in prophecy are either void altogether or transferred to 'Christendom' - some say Great Britain is now Israel, as far as the promises of God in the scripture go, later some say America is.
IMO all that is wrong. Israel is Israel, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, in prophecy. she will be redeemed and God will not utterly forsake her.
IMO all that is wrong. Israel is Israel, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, in prophecy. she will be redeemed and God will not utterly forsake her.
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BTW.....
@Braweh
if i am arguing against some of your positions here it doesn't mean i don't love you. i hope that goes without saying
There is enough personal vitriol going on in this thread already... we're just talking together sorting out the truth giving our own views.
No insult or animosity ever intended by post, here
i am glad you are here and glad to discuss
@Braweh
if i am arguing against some of your positions here it doesn't mean i don't love you. i hope that goes without saying
There is enough personal vitriol going on in this thread already... we're just talking together sorting out the truth giving our own views.
No insult or animosity ever intended by post, here
i am glad you are here and glad to discuss
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and you actually show the distinction that these 2 are separate.
Awesome Job
כח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה: עַד-אָנָה, מֵאַנְתֶּם, לִשְׁמֹר מִצְוֺתַי, וְתוֹרֹתָי.16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?
God, shows us there's a distinction between the Commandments and Laws.
if the Commandments were part of the Law, God, would have said, just keep My Laws.
Awesome Job
כח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה: עַד-אָנָה, מֵאַנְתֶּם, לִשְׁמֹר מִצְוֺתַי, וְתוֹרֹתָי.16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?
God, shows us there's a distinction between the Commandments and Laws.
if the Commandments were part of the Law, God, would have said, just keep My Laws.
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Amen!
we are ALL going to be in the SAME Heaven together.
and i know some feathers are ruffled here.
but, the reason i can be attacked and keep cool is because for me, this is strictly a DEBATE.
i have the view that no matter what is said at me, towards me, or vice-versa, this is a Debate Platform and we are all trying to present Fact.
but offline, i totally view this as a FAMILY.
we are ALL going to be in the SAME Heaven together.
and i know some feathers are ruffled here.
but, the reason i can be attacked and keep cool is because for me, this is strictly a DEBATE.
i have the view that no matter what is said at me, towards me, or vice-versa, this is a Debate Platform and we are all trying to present Fact.
but offline, i totally view this as a FAMILY.
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and you actually show the distinction that these 2 are separate.
Awesome Job
כח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה: עַד-אָנָה, מֵאַנְתֶּם, לִשְׁמֹר מִצְוֺתַי, וְתוֹרֹתָי.16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?
God, shows us there's a distinction between the Commandments and Laws.
if the Commandments were part of the Law, God, would have said, just keep My Laws.
Awesome Job
כח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה: עַד-אָנָה, מֵאַנְתֶּם, לִשְׁמֹר מִצְוֺתַי, וְתוֹרֹתָי.16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?
God, shows us there's a distinction between the Commandments and Laws.
if the Commandments were part of the Law, God, would have said, just keep My Laws.
i meant to show they were proven to be disobedient, so the overall law they were given was a law for a disobedient people - as Romans 7:7-12 explains, and in another place, that what the law says, it says to shut up every mouth, "so none can boast" - - therefore if we boast, we boast in Christ, of His mercy towards us
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Ladies and gentlemen: grab your seat and hold on to your popcorn.
In the blue corner, we have a self-proclaimed Messianic Jew who says the Law is only the first four commandments.
In the red corner, we have a Judaizer claiming the commandments aren’t part of the Law at all.
Let’s sit back and let these two contentious contenders contend.
In the blue corner, we have a self-proclaimed Messianic Jew who says the Law is only the first four commandments.
In the red corner, we have a Judaizer claiming the commandments aren’t part of the Law at all.
Let’s sit back and let these two contentious contenders contend.
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Since I know this is towards me. Like your last several posts. If you could not only read but had the ability to understand the English Language, I said 4 Commandments, not the first 4.
When comprehension doesn't take place, crazy ideas get formatted.
Imagine that?
And show me where God said His Commandments and His Laws, like Exodus chapter 16 clarifies are separate but you insist are one and the Same set of Laws, when chapter 21 shows even God separated them from specially calling them His Laws Orsinances?
Let me see YOU prove they are one and the Same?
When comprehension doesn't take place, crazy ideas get formatted.
Imagine that?
And show me where God said His Commandments and His Laws, like Exodus chapter 16 clarifies are separate but you insist are one and the Same set of Laws, when chapter 21 shows even God separated them from specially calling them His Laws Orsinances?
Let me see YOU prove they are one and the Same?
