10 Questions about OSAS

[Magenta]

SOME Christians are smart enough to be able to work through individual doctrines without labels.

Fixed it for ya .

 

[Magenta]

When Paul prayed 3 times to have a problem removed, it was revealed that grace was sufficient,
not healing. The grace that saves is also the grace that sustains. Without grace, we all fall away.

2 Corinthians 12:9-10

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And it highlights the role of the Trinity in salvation. The good Shepherd seeks and saves. The Holy Spirit cleans and enlightens. And the Father draws.

And let's not forget what Jesus said later (after what He'd said in Jn6:44), below:


John 6:44 -
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw G1670 him: and I will raise him up at the last day."


John 12:32 -
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw G1670 all men unto me [/unto myself]."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

9. Explain why Christ’s apostle Paul warned all New Testament believers, namely Gentiles, that they will be “cut off” from and by God if they do not continue in His goodness? (Romans 11:20-22)

I think mailmandan touched on this somewhere in this thread, already... but here's what I'd put in an old post... hopefully it helps answer your question number 9... It has to do with understanding "context" (the "context" of Romans 9-11):

[see this old post, especially the MIDDLE SECTION of that post, read it carefully] Post #371 - https://christianchat.com/threads/w...nd-what-does-it-represent.198648/post-4550216

 

[JimmyTheLock]

JimmyTheLock
you probably own their books and support FOOLS and DEMONS like this

No, you'd be wrong homie... I read that Book published by my favorite Author... Jesus Christ.

Turns out, He is THE source of God's Word because He IS God's Word.

All other authors are just sharing their opinions... I'll stick with the Jesus says!
But, thanks so much for thinking of me! That was nice.

Civil Disorder, typically follows Government shut down for even short periods [we have it on record for all nations]

Not in this nation you don't have it on record... I know during my lifetime there have been numerous government shut downs and the only people crying in their soup were the liberals to suck on the government teat wanting to know when their hand outs will be fully restored!

But the biggest issue I have, is cutting off support to both the USA Military

That's not true... they have built in provisions to keep the military up and running by funds that have already been approved.

The government is a joke and needs to be shut down and reorganized back to where it obeys the US Constitution rather than socialism which is how government functions now.

if you are MAGA

I'm an independent and don't subscribe to any political movement... I'm a child of the Most High God and I'm called to be a citizen of the Kingdom of God.

But, I do oppose killing babies, sexual perversion, and mob rule... so obviously the most evil of the two political parties in this nation are the democrats.

Bills can't be paid, no food on the table, many things come into factor here. and if people are willing to storm Capital Hill (over VOTES)... then during a shutdown, where your money is cut-off, easily can lead to CIVIL DISORDER in a matter of days.

Yeah, that would be you democrats doing all that...

read it carefully

I'll pass... thanks so much for thinking about me though!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No, you'd be wrong homie... I read that Book published by my favorite Author... Jesus Christ.

Turns out, He is THE source of God's Word because He IS God's Word.

All other authors are just sharing their opinions... I'll stick with the Jesus says!
But, thanks so much for thinking of me! That was nice.





Not in this nation you don't have it on record... I know during my lifetime there have been numerous government shut downs and the only people crying in their soup were the liberals to suck on the government teat wanting to know when their hand outs will be fully restored!




That's not true... they have built in provisions to keep the military up and running by funds that have already been approved.

The government is a joke and needs to be shut down and reorganized back to where it obeys the US Constitution rather than socialism which is how government functions now.




I'm an independent and don't subscribe to any political movement... I'm a child of the Most High God and I'm called to be a citizen of the Kingdom of God.

But, I do oppose killing babies, sexual perversion, and mob rule... so obviously the most evil of the two political parties in this nation are the democrats.




Yeah, that would be you democrats doing all that...




I'll pass... thanks so much for thinking about me though!

Trump, tried almost everything he could do to issue Martial Law, during his Presidency. and there was no Civil Disorder at all. The Republican Party came against him, only reason, he did not attempt to pursue it. that was merely less than 6 years ago. I am not, nor ever have been registered nor Voted for Democrat. but the fact, you conveniently, forgot that merely 6 years ago, the Nation was under the Possible threat of Martial Law, shows me how full of bunk, you actually are.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

and there was no Civil Disorder at all.

That's hilarious!

During the summer of 2020 there was all kinds of rioting, murder, destruction of property being done by democrats out in the street.

And your boy Trump was too YELLOW to do anything about it!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I'll pass... thanks so much for thinking about me though!

You're free to believe as you wish. I was just trying to help.

[JTL's OP] 9. Explain why Christ’s apostle Paul warned all New Testament believers, namely Gentiles, that they will be “cut off” from and by God if they do not continue in His goodness? (Romans 11:20-22)

See any incongruities in what you've written here ^ ?


You say, "all NT believers"... "namely Gentiles"--In saying this, are you suggesting there were no [NT] believers that were of Israel / Jews?? Only "Gentiles" believed?? (i.e. this is why you think Paul is addressing "Gentiles" here in this context?)



I maintain that you've misunderstood and misapplied the "context" of Romans 11's "olive tree". Many people do.



[I trust there are readers out there who will benefit from the previous post / supplied link]

 

[mailmandan]

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

I was just trying to help.

Yeah, trying to help me quit accepting the whole counsel of God in favor of only accepting a select few passages so I'll be come one of those OSAS peoples and be a follower of false doctrines. No thanks!

I maintain that you've misunderstood and misapplied the "context" of Romans 11's "olive tree". Many people do.

You totally forgot about that born again thingy bob... ya gotta accept all the Lord says to properly understand.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If a Jewish person gets born again... then the New Covenant applies to them just like it does gentiles.

The NT clearly tells us that Jews who have not accepted Christ are not grafted in because of unbelief

Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Cameron143]

Yeah, trying to help me quit accepting the whole counsel of God in favor of only accepting a select few passages so I'll be come one of those OSAS peoples and be a follower of false doctrines. No thanks!





You totally forgot about that born again thingy bob... ya gotta accept all the Lord says to properly understand.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If a Jewish person gets born again... then the New Covenant applies to them just like it does gentiles.

The NT clearly tells us that Jews who have not accepted Christ are not grafted in because of unbelief

Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

How does someone become unborn again?

 

[JimmyTheLock]

How does someone become unborn again?

If you knew God's Word... you would know how people can be righteous, and then become UN-righteous

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

 

[Jimbone]

How does someone become unborn again?

Easy, don't trust God and put all trust in yourself. That what they do. Crazy to think only those who have not been born again seem to think you can be "unreborn" or whatever nonsense they teach and believe a powerless and silly God would give, sadly. Such self centeredness.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The promises in this passage are ONLY applicable to those that hear His Voice (includes God's written Word), and those that follow Him.

Galatians 6:8
he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation is ONLY applicable to those that walk after the Spirit...

Those walking after the flesh are sowing to the flesh so they are reaping corruption not eternal life... these folks need to REPENT of their sin, confess it to the Lord and forsake their sin in order to once again be in right standing with the Lord.

 

[Cameron143]

If you knew God's Word... you would know how people can be righteous, and then become UN-righteous

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

Thanks for the help oh wise one. That was a perfectly good answer to a question I didn't ask. I know from John 3 how someone is born again. Where does God teach how to be unborn again in the scripture?
I'll save you the time because I believe you will otherwise actually look for it. It's not there. We can't born ourselves again so we can't unborn ourselves again either. Spiritual birth is a work of God just as physical birth is.

 

[wattie]

As usual, daily service gets conflated with salvation itself. Verses not about getting salvation are confused to be about getting it.. verses that are about getting salvation get a 'yes...but'

Context is key.

Who is talking to whom?

What is the subject?

What is the occasion for speaking? Time and place?

Then you get to know what the verse applies to.

Don't remove a brick from it's surrounding wall.. don't take a verse on its own and say it contains all the meaning in itself.

 

[NOV25]

If a once truly born again believer can’t possibly go back to sin and go to hell, explain:

1. Where did God say any man ever loses his free will on this earth? (Joshua 24:15)
2. Where did God say that those He saves cannot ever go back to sin?
3. How and why are the wages of sin no longer death? (Romans 6:23)
4. Why did God separate Adam and Eve from Himself when they sinned and yet now somehow changed and keeps rebels, violators, unrepentant sinners in His kingdom? (Genesis 3:24; Malachi 3:6)
5. Explain why God is no longer just?
6. Explain why God no longer punishes sin, especially in the unrepentant? (Romans 2:6-7)
7. Explain why God is no longer holy and therefore can and will keep rebels in His holy, eternal kingdom? (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8)
8. Explain why you claim Jesus lied when He said a man can “believe” and then “fall away” if such is not possible? (Luke 8:13)
9. Explain why Christ’s apostle Paul warned all New Testament believers, namely Gentiles, that they will be “cut off” from and by God if they do not continue in His goodness? (Romans 11:20-22)
10. Explain why Jesus told the Church at Laodicea, His own people, that if they become “lukewarm,” He would reject, spue them out of His mouth? (Revelation 3:15-16)

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

there's something to say why Jesus said a dog returns to his vomit and a pig to the mud.

one is rid of the sins by vomiting but chooses to fill themselves back up with it, the other is clean but wants to go back to being dirty.

a State of being full of God and clean, but then chooses to fill back up with Sin and return to being filthy.

The words of Jesus are simply direct and easy to understand.

 

[awelight]

If a once truly born again believer can’t possibly go back to sin and go to hell, explain:

1. Where did God say any man ever loses his free will on this earth? (Joshua 24:15)
2. Where did God say that those He saves cannot ever go back to sin?
3. How and why are the wages of sin no longer death? (Romans 6:23)
4. Why did God separate Adam and Eve from Himself when they sinned and yet now somehow changed and keeps rebels, violators, unrepentant sinners in His kingdom? (Genesis 3:24; Malachi 3:6)
5. Explain why God is no longer just?
6. Explain why God no longer punishes sin, especially in the unrepentant? (Romans 2:6-7)
7. Explain why God is no longer holy and therefore can and will keep rebels in His holy, eternal kingdom? (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8)
8. Explain why you claim Jesus lied when He said a man can “believe” and then “fall away” if such is not possible? (Luke 8:13)
9. Explain why Christ’s apostle Paul warned all New Testament believers, namely Gentiles, that they will be “cut off” from and by God if they do not continue in His goodness? (Romans 11:20-22)
10. Explain why Jesus told the Church at Laodicea, His own people, that if they become “lukewarm,” He would reject, spue them out of His mouth? (Revelation 3:15-16)

I'm not sure why anyone would take the time to answer these questions. Just the nature of the questions and the way they are written tells one everything they need to know.

Your understanding of the Scriptures, is really way out there. In attempting to attack those who believe in OSAS, you have allowed your feelings to overwhelm your reason. Not trying to be cruel but you really do need to ease up and take some time off.

 

[mailmandan]

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

The promises in this passage are ONLY applicable to those that hear His Voice (includes God's written Word), and those that follow Him.

Which is 'descriptive' of His sheep in CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)

Galatians 6:8
he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Descriptive of children of God in whom the Spirit of God dwells in them. In regard to Galatians 6:7-8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt, flesh which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Only believers sow to the Spirit and from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Again, 'descriptive' of children of God.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Keep reading. Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Once again, Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation is ONLY applicable to those that walk after the Spirit...

Once again, 'descriptive' of children of God. You seem to confuse 'descriptive' passages of Scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of Scripture which is a common error made by works-salvationists. The end result is works-righteousness.

Those walking after the flesh are sowing to the flesh so they are reaping corruption not eternal life... these folks need to REPENT of their sin, confess it to the Lord and forsake their sin in order to once again be in right standing with the Lord.

Folks who walk after the flesh and are sowing to the flesh do not have the Spirit of God and are lost. Once again, Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Still don't see the CONTRAST?