Ball Earth conundrums

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
GaryA said:
The moon's orientation is never flipped - only rotated.
Click to expand...
So, you believe the moon is flat? Is that right? You can't possibly, can you? You're in a cultic belief system. You know the explanation of the appearance of the flip between hemispheres is a flat moon, right?


GaryA said:
My faith is, if the Bible describes the earth as being stationary and that it does not move - then, I believe it. (best kind of 'proof' there is)
Click to expand...
No, Joshua 10:12-13 is not PROOF of a flat earth, and you know it. Throughout the Bible, God preforms miracles and delivers messages so people understand the message. He doesn't distract from the important message or miracle with corrective science lessons. Joshua asked for the sun to be stopped to have plenty of sunlight to kill the Amorites. God didn't refuse him because he didn't "ask it the right way", God doesn't require he knows what God knows. If you don't want to believe this as poetic or hyperbolic, which many commentaries point out with many examples, as with many stories in the Bible, Joshua reported what he saw from his perspective. Almighty God can accomplish his request regardless of SE or FE.

GaryA said:
The video in post #630 has such strong Flat Earth 'proof' in it that nothing else really compares to it or can stand up against it.
Click to expand...
I watched it, and of course there is. Did you really think there wasn't? I'll post a video that explains the temperature differences.

The Arctic vs. the Antarctic - Camille Seaman - YouTube

Over the years I've seen a lot of FE videos, and I can tell you not all evidence presented has been accurate or true, to say the least. The video author did not cite his daylight data. If you cared, you could verify that data and see if an explanation currently exists for any NZ/England daylight differences, if they exist.

GaryA said:
The airplane flight issue is really quite insignificant when compared to many other things that need to also be considered.
Click to expand...

No, Gary, it's not insignificant compared to other things. It's uniquely special compared to all the "in one's head" conceptualizing, where I'm afraid you want to keep it. I'm trying to give you a lifeline out of the cult. This is the tangible proof you can experience firsthand that can prove it to you.

In 2023, for centuries distances on earth have literally been measured, along with navigation techniques, travel and trade across the earth. The FE model is fixed and clear: Santiago to Sydney is more than TWICE as far away as Santiago to Los Angeles! The flight would be approximately TWICE as long. This is it, Gary, your opportunity to confirm SE or FE. It's not just doable, it's been done many times. (Santiago to Johannesburg is less but very comparable as proof.)

You have a responsibility to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to confirm you're not teaching falsehood to them. You can pause till you complete this. It's a fun adventure vacation you deserve, and you can afford. You can make the trip and stays very enjoyable or tight as you'd like (Santiago, Johannesburg or Sydney). Here's some starting information:
Why Planes Fly Over The North Pole But Not The South Pole - YouTube The vid actually explains why it wasn't done in the past and why the current flight requires extra specifications.
Qantas 787 over Antarctica - the most beautiful flight review ever! - YouTube There are many videos of the flight on youtube. One is the entire uninterrupted flight, 3 some hours.

I'll continue praying for you. Here's one last vid nudge for you. The vid author is replying to peeps who had recently insulted him personally, so he's quite salty and a little smug in it lol. I'm sure you already know how to ignore the playful jabs. 10 Challenges For Flat Earthers - YouTube
 
Gideon300 said:
Maps are the result of exploration and surveys, observations from the air and have taken centuries to produce.
Click to expand...
And, for all of those centuries, the actual data that was measured was 'flat' data - no 'curvature' was measured - only horizontal angle and vertical distance of each point with reference to another point - on a flat level base plane.

If any 'curvature' ever entered into anything, it was done based on assumption and "injected" with mathematics.

No 'curvature' has ever been measured; albeit, it has been assumed.

All of the maps you speak of are 'flat' maps - there are no two ways about it.

I did not say (and, have never said) that they were 'Flat Earth' maps - I said they were 'flat' maps - because, the data they were produced from was 'flat' data - having its basis in plane geometry.
 
Surveyors, engineers and architects are never required to factor the supposed curvature of the Earth into their projects. Canals, railways, bridges and tunnels for example are always cut and laid horizontally, often over hundreds of miles without any allowance for curvature.
 
The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas. When constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.
 
Engineer, W. Winckler was published in the Earth Review regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books. No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind. I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for. This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet. Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools. Nothing of the sort is allowed. We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle”
 
The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curving 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising over a mile, a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool.
 
A surveyor and engineer of thirty years published in the Birmingham Weekly Mercury stated, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED. Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.”
 
The Manchester Ship Canal Company published in the Earth Review stated, “It is customary in Railway and Canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections. It is not the practice in laying out Public Works to make allowances for the curvature of the earth.
 
Gideon300 said:
Sure, it's flat where I'm standing.
Click to expand...
Of course. It is, after all, the 'basic default natural' case - whereby - anyone, wherever they may be on the earth - is going to observe it as 'flat'.

Gideon300 said:
If ever you want to qualify as a surveyor, you will have to accept the reality that the earth is a globe.
Click to expand...
I think not.

Gideon300 said:
It is simple enough to demonstrate that the earth is a globe.
Click to expand...
I think not.

"I have tried - but, alas, facts kept getting in the way..."

Gideon300 said:
You just refuse to accept reality.
Click to expand...
I think not.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas. When constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.
Click to expand...
Which doesn't help to prove either model of the Earth's shape.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
The Manchester Ship Canal Company published in the Earth Review stated, “It is customary in Railway and Canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections. It is not the practice in laying out Public Works to make allowances for the curvature of the earth.
Click to expand...
Because with most public works, there is no need to do so. Only with significant works such as the Verrazano Narrows Bridge in New York are such accomodations necessary. Otherwise, the variances are too small or gradual to affect the works.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
A surveyor and engineer of thirty years published in the Birmingham Weekly Mercury stated, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED. Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.”
Click to expand...
Sadly, either the quoted engineer didn't understand the context, or his words have been badly misrepresented. Something that is built to a particular elevation, even over a significant distance, will follow the curve of the Earth, negating the slopes implied in the quotation.

The quotation is old, and has been refuted previously on this site.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curving 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising over a mile, a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool.
Click to expand...
You're confusing elevation over a dead-flat surface with elevation over a curve. The 240-foot difference in elevation is between the relative elevations of the various locations, each of which is from mean sea level at that location, which would erase the "missing" 5,160 feet.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
Surveyors, engineers and architects are never required to factor the supposed curvature of the Earth into their projects. Canals, railways, bridges and tunnels for example are always cut and laid horizontally, often over hundreds of miles without any allowance for curvature.
Click to expand...
No, they are cut to a consistent elevation. There is a difference.
 
ByTheGraceOfGod said:
Surveyors, engineers and architects are never required to factor the supposed curvature of the Earth into their projects. Canals, railways, bridges and tunnels for example are always cut and laid horizontally, often over hundreds of miles without any allowance for curvature.
Click to expand...

Why don’t you study how they made the subways in London? From what little I know not taking the curvature of the earth into consideration would have been a major blow when making the tunnels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back