Is Baptism in water a work or a command? Is it necessary for salvation?

[turbosixx]

Jesus saves.

100% The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Not water.

eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you

Not a profession.

and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Not repentance.

“Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”

Not anything, but God. So while all these things and more testify to the awesome salvation of God, none produce salvation. There is no power in water. There is no power in men's words. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

I access the resurrection Like Jesus told me

Believe (have trust in him) and you will be saved

Jesus also said this.
The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved;
Has been, past tense. Not the one who has believed will be saved and then should be baptized.

You do realize that the water was Gods judgment do you not?

The water did nto save them, It judged the world.

They were saved out of the water.

Just like we are saved out of Gods wrath by the ressurection of Christ.

if you want to know how. read John 3, 4, 5 and 6.

What did Peter say. Did he say the water judged them? Did he say they were saved out of water? If it wasn't the water as the bible tell us, why even mention the water?
KJV that is, eight souls were saved by water.

If you take out the parenthetical expression, you will see baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Rom. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

 

[Cameron143]

100% The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you

and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
“Well then, God has also granted to the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life.”


in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

What I shared is true. While many things attend salvation, God alone empowers it. And while keeping commandments may evidence a relationship with Christ, they aren't it's cause. Your version of Ephesians 2:8 must read...for by ourselves we are saved through baptism...

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus also said this.
The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved;
Has been, past tense. Not the one who has believed will be saved and then should be baptized.

So did he contradict himself

or was he talking about a different baptism. which is automatic upon faith?

What did Peter say. Did he say the water judged them? Did he say they were saved out of water? If it wasn't the water as the bible tell us, why even mention the water?
KJV that is, eight souls were saved by water.

20 who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

If you take out the parenthetical expression, you will see baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Rom. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Sorry Bro.

The bible does niot contradict itself

Not by works of righteousness which we have done (water baptism is a work of righteousnes0 but By his MECY he SAVED us through the WASHING (baptism) and regeneration (new birth) of the Holy Spirit (God does the worl. not some man. and not through water

 

[turbosixx]

What I shared is true. While many things attend salvation, God alone empowers it. And while keeping commandments may evidence a relationship with Christ, they aren't it's cause. Your version of Ephesians 2:8 must read...for by ourselves we are saved through baptism...

I read and understand Eph. 2:8 just as written with the understanding that verse 9 gives us.
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are not saved by works and we are not saved without them.

I'm sorry but what you shared is false.
Peter tells me baptism now saves you and you tell me baptism does not save you. Whom am I to believe?

 

[turbosixx]

So did he contradict himself

or was he talking about a different baptism. which is automatic upon faith?

If we consider the context, it's clear the baptism Jesus is speaking of is water in His name.
Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

Same conversation Jesus said The one who has (1)believed and has been (2)baptized will be (3)saved;
We see exactly that at the preaching of the first gospel sermon.
So then, those who had received his word (1) were baptized (2) ; and that day there were added (3) about three thousand souls.

 

[turbosixx]

20 who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

The Greek word used for through

dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Definition: through, on account of, because of
Usage: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is not a work of righteousness which I have done because my blood can't cover my sins, but His (Jesus Christ) blood can which the water of baptism represents, so truly it is a Work of God.

Yes, So God needs to wash you with your blood

If your doing the work of water baptism. Your tryign to wash yourself..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

it all depends on what the definition of "is" is. Just ask Slick Willy..

It's odd how ALL translations that I know of interpret it as FOR the forgiveness of sins, not BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins.

It's taken a couple of thousand years to get smart enough to decide it means something else. smh.

Besides, that was not the issue, the issue was, when do we receive the Spirit? It is tied to baptism... your argument about the "when" of forgiveness has no bearing on that discussion.

I received the spirit the moment i call out to God and received his grace gift of eternal life. because I, who was dead in tresspasses and sins, was made alive through the redemption in Christ.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I read and understand Eph. 2:8 just as written with the understanding that verse 9 gives us.
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are not saved by works and we are not saved without them.

I'm sorry but what you shared is false.
Peter tells me baptism now saves you and you tell me baptism does not save you. Whom am I to believe?

so we are not saved by works

but we are not saved without them

talk about a contradiction..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If we consider the context, it's clear the baptism Jesus is speaking of is water in His name.
Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

Baptize THEM, (there are already saved)

Same conversation Jesus said The one who has (1)believed and has been (2)baptized will be (3)saved;
We see exactly that at the preaching of the first gospel sermon.
So then, those who had received his word (1) were baptized (2) ; and that day there were added (3) about three thousand souls.

Jesus said how to be born again.

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is the gospel.

Your trying to replace spirit baptism with water baptism.

That is a different gospel.. it is no more truth than trying to add circumcision

 

[turbosixx]

so we are not saved by works

but we are not saved without them

talk about a contradiction..

What work or amount of works could man possibly do to earn his salvation? None.

What if he does no work?
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Greek word used for through

dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Definition: through, on account of, because of
Usage: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

through.

see I was correct

they were saved THROUGH water

as we are saved by Grace THROUGH faith..not works.

My faith did nto save me, Grace saved me

Water did nto save them, the ark did (God did)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What work or amount of works could man possibly do to earn his salvation? None.

Amen

What if he does no work?
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Then his claimed faith was wrong, it was dead.

He did not work because he was nto saved, not because he was and failed to earn it.

 

[Cameron143]

I read and understand Eph. 2:8 just as written with the understanding that verse 9 gives us.
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are not saved by works and we are not saved without them.

I'm sorry but what you shared is false.
Peter tells me baptism now saves you and you tell me baptism does not save you. Whom am I to believe?

We are saved without them...not of works. You require salvation to include obedience. I recognize that this is inconsistent with grace alone, and that obedience comes as a result of a changed heart and new nature.
This is the importance of Acts 2:37. One sees the work of God producing faith and circumcising the heart to affect the will. Thus, the baptism that accompanies salvation and part of it is a baptism into the body of Christ spoken of in Ephesians 4.
The reason this causes you problems is because you conflate the baptism into Christ with the baptism of the Spirit in Ephesians 1. Both are spiritual, but the first is nonexperiential, while the other is very manifest. One is done for us and the other to us. The first is our actual placement into Christ. The second is God's sealing of us and a witness to others that we do indeed belong to God. The second is accompanied by signs and authenticate the work of God and serve as a seal of God's promises to the believer.

Incidentally, Christians today know little of the baptism of the Spirit. It is little talked about because it is little understood and because of the pushback against its abuse. But what the church desperately needs is a time of refreshing that comes from the Lord. In other words, the Holy Spirit coming in great power.

 

[turbosixx]

Baptize THEM, (there are already saved)

Not so. The one who has believed, past tense. And has been baptized, past tense. Will be saved future tense.
The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved;

Jesus said how to be born again.

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes, he who believes. Let's look at the context and how Jesus started this conversation.
3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Your trying to replace spirit baptism with water baptism.

That is a different gospel.. it is no more truth than trying to add circumcision

There is no such thing as spiritual baptism.

 

[turbosixx]

Then his claimed faith was wrong, it was dead.

He did not work because he was nto saved, not because he was and failed to earn it.

I'm gonna disagree with you on this one. How can a branch be added unless God adds the branch. God is only going to add believers.

 

[turbosixx]

We are saved without them...not of works. You require salvation to include obedience.

I do not, God requires obedience.

I recognize that this is inconsistent with grace alone, and that obedience comes as a result of a changed heart and new nature.

That is not faith alone. That is faith that works and I agree with that.

Incidentally, Christians today know little of the baptism of the Spirit. It is little talked about because it is little understood and because of the pushback against its abuse.

They know little about it because it isn't a real thing. It's not in the bible. Baptism OF the HS is a false doctrine. It doesn't exist in scripture, just man's imagination.

 

[Cameron143]

I do not, God requires obedience.

That is not faith alone. That is faith that works and I agree with that.


They know little about it because it isn't a real thing. It's not in the bible. Baptism OF the HS is a false doctrine. It doesn't exist in scripture, just man's imagination.

Is your faith in God and what He has done, or this and your response?

 

[turbosixx]

through.

see I was correct

they were saved THROUGH water

as we are saved by Grace THROUGH faith..not works.

My faith did nto save me, Grace saved me

Water did nto save them, the ark did (God did)

Why does Peter mention the flood and water to symbolize baptism?