Baptized With The Holy Spirit
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Agreed - the Holy Spirits ministry is vast in its operation and if one is in the "Body of Christ" then that one was placed or immersed into that Body by the Spirit. I like what John Gill had to say on this verse:
For by one Spirit are we all baptized,.... This is to be understood not of water baptism; for the apostle says not in one, and the same water, but "by", or "in" one Spirit, are we all baptized; the baptism of water, and of the Spirit, are two different things; see Mat_3:11. Besides, all that are baptized in water, are not baptized in or by the Spirit, as the case of Simon Magus, and that of others, show; nor does water baptism incorporate persons into the church of Christ; neither into the invisible church, which is the body of Christ, and here meant; nor into a visible Gospel church state; they being indeed true believers, and baptized, are proper persons to be received into a church; but baptism itself does not put them into it, or make them members of it: persons may be baptized in water, and yet may never be joined to a church. There is indeed an allusion made to water baptism, but it is the grace of the Spirit in regeneration and sanctification which is here intended; which grace, both in the Old and in the New Testament, is frequently signified by water, and called a baptism, or a being baptized, because of the plenty, abundance, and superabundance of it, then bestowed; and is expressed by floods and rivers, and a well of living water; and is what qualifies and fits persons for the ordinance of water baptism. Now this is wrought by the Spirit of God, and is owing to his divine power and energy; not to water baptism, which has no regenerating virtue in it; nor to carnal regeneration, or a being born of blood, or of the best of men; nor to the will of any man; nor to the will of the flesh, or the power of man's freewill; but to God, to the Spirit, who is Lord and God, and the only sanctifier of the sons of men; by which spiritual baptism, or by whose grace in regeneration and conversion they are brought into one body: the mystical body of Christ, the universal and invisible church; that is, openly and manifestatively; for otherwise it is the grace of God in election, and in the everlasting covenant, choosing them in Christ, as members in their head, and constituting them such, that puts them among that number; but spiritual baptism, or the sanctifying grace of the Spirit, makes them appear to belong to that body, and makes them meet for, and gives them a right unto, a particular Gospel church, and the privileges of it, which the Spirit of God directs and brings them to. Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; it matters not of what nation, or of what state and condition of life persons be; if they are regenerated and sanctified, they appear equally to belong to Christ, to be of his body, and have an equal propriety in all immunities and blessings belonging to his people; see Col_3:11
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit; are all partakers of the same graces of the Spirit, as faith, hope, love, &c. and daily receive under his guidance, direction, and influence, out of the same fulness of grace in Christ, from whence they draw and drink this water with joy; and all drink the same spiritual drink, the blood of Christ, whose blood is drink indeed: and there may be in this clause an allusion to the ordinance of the supper, as in the former to the ordinance of baptism. Moreover, all new born babes, as they desire the sincere milk of the word, so they drink of it, and are refreshed with it, and are nourished by the words of faith, and sound doctrine, under the application, of the Spirit; and being trees of righteousness, and the planting of the Lord, the Spirit, they are watered by his grace, under the ministrations of the Gospel; and as they become one body under Christ, the head, so they are made to drink into one Spirit, or to become of one heart and soul with one another, being knit together in love, the bond of perfectness.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized,.... This is to be understood not of water baptism; for the apostle says not in one, and the same water, but "by", or "in" one Spirit, are we all baptized; the baptism of water, and of the Spirit, are two different things; see Mat_3:11. Besides, all that are baptized in water, are not baptized in or by the Spirit, as the case of Simon Magus, and that of others, show; nor does water baptism incorporate persons into the church of Christ; neither into the invisible church, which is the body of Christ, and here meant; nor into a visible Gospel church state; they being indeed true believers, and baptized, are proper persons to be received into a church; but baptism itself does not put them into it, or make them members of it: persons may be baptized in water, and yet may never be joined to a church. There is indeed an allusion made to water baptism, but it is the grace of the Spirit in regeneration and sanctification which is here intended; which grace, both in the Old and in the New Testament, is frequently signified by water, and called a baptism, or a being baptized, because of the plenty, abundance, and superabundance of it, then bestowed; and is expressed by floods and rivers, and a well of living water; and is what qualifies and fits persons for the ordinance of water baptism. Now this is wrought by the Spirit of God, and is owing to his divine power and energy; not to water baptism, which has no regenerating virtue in it; nor to carnal regeneration, or a being born of blood, or of the best of men; nor to the will of any man; nor to the will of the flesh, or the power of man's freewill; but to God, to the Spirit, who is Lord and God, and the only sanctifier of the sons of men; by which spiritual baptism, or by whose grace in regeneration and conversion they are brought into one body: the mystical body of Christ, the universal and invisible church; that is, openly and manifestatively; for otherwise it is the grace of God in election, and in the everlasting covenant, choosing them in Christ, as members in their head, and constituting them such, that puts them among that number; but spiritual baptism, or the sanctifying grace of the Spirit, makes them appear to belong to that body, and makes them meet for, and gives them a right unto, a particular Gospel church, and the privileges of it, which the Spirit of God directs and brings them to. Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; it matters not of what nation, or of what state and condition of life persons be; if they are regenerated and sanctified, they appear equally to belong to Christ, to be of his body, and have an equal propriety in all immunities and blessings belonging to his people; see Col_3:11
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit; are all partakers of the same graces of the Spirit, as faith, hope, love, &c. and daily receive under his guidance, direction, and influence, out of the same fulness of grace in Christ, from whence they draw and drink this water with joy; and all drink the same spiritual drink, the blood of Christ, whose blood is drink indeed: and there may be in this clause an allusion to the ordinance of the supper, as in the former to the ordinance of baptism. Moreover, all new born babes, as they desire the sincere milk of the word, so they drink of it, and are refreshed with it, and are nourished by the words of faith, and sound doctrine, under the application, of the Spirit; and being trees of righteousness, and the planting of the Lord, the Spirit, they are watered by his grace, under the ministrations of the Gospel; and as they become one body under Christ, the head, so they are made to drink into one Spirit, or to become of one heart and soul with one another, being knit together in love, the bond of perfectness.
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Actually, all most all Greek works agree that βαπτίζω (Baptize) which comes from the root word: Bapto, means: To cover with a fluid.
Besides that, lets look at a verse of Scripture and see how ludicrous it would be to think of anything less than "full immersion".
Acts 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Could we place the word "sprinkle" into both of these positions? How could one be "sprinkled" into the Holy Spirit? A believer is "immersed" into the Holy Spirit - that is, every part of his/her being is covered. No where in Scripture, does it imply that one is partially sprinkled with the Holy Spirit.
Besides that, lets look at a verse of Scripture and see how ludicrous it would be to think of anything less than "full immersion".
Acts 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Could we place the word "sprinkle" into both of these positions? How could one be "sprinkled" into the Holy Spirit? A believer is "immersed" into the Holy Spirit - that is, every part of his/her being is covered. No where in Scripture, does it imply that one is partially sprinkled with the Holy Spirit.
being from a Jewish Family, I knew, i had you over the Barrel on this one. so, i will be nice about it:
For ALL of the History of the Jews [ancient Hebrews], part of their Laws, they have kept in practice now for over 4,500 years. This is how they did, would have in Jesus Day, and STILL Baptize:
the purification rites in Halakha, Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah.
The tvilah is the act of immersion in naturally sourced water, called a mikva.
So Paul, would have meant FULL BODY IMMERSION, like Jesus, ALL JEWS [before then and after] have always done.
it's in the LAW!
For ALL of the History of the Jews [ancient Hebrews], part of their Laws, they have kept in practice now for over 4,500 years. This is how they did, would have in Jesus Day, and STILL Baptize:
the purification rites in Halakha, Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah.
The tvilah is the act of immersion in naturally sourced water, called a mikva.
So Paul, would have meant FULL BODY IMMERSION, like Jesus, ALL JEWS [before then and after] have always done.
it's in the LAW!
how did i change my argument? Paul, would use how the Jews were baptized to describe being Buried like Christ in Water Baptism. i am showing why Paul would have given the answer he did.
I think you have no leg to stand on any more and so now you're making this into me trying to sneak one past you.
why sneak, I know the Truth, and clearly, You do not...
I think you have no leg to stand on any more and so now you're making this into me trying to sneak one past you.
why sneak, I know the Truth, and clearly, You do not...
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Agreed! Word games do not make theology . . . ! AMEN
One can only "prove" immersion if one starts with the assumption that immersion is what must be done. In other words, decide what your doctrine is, then find Scriptures to prove it.
I much prefer to simply study the Scriptures and see what they clearly say. I only take doctrine from what Scripture directly says.
Hence the discussions of church doctrine, Jewish burial practices, various sources that give differing word meanings, and rhetorical questions, etc. etc. don't (for me at least) establish doctrine. If it is so important that baptism must be a complete immersion to be valid, please show one text that says so.
One can only "prove" immersion if one starts with the assumption that immersion is what must be done. In other words, decide what your doctrine is, then find Scriptures to prove it.
I much prefer to simply study the Scriptures and see what they clearly say. I only take doctrine from what Scripture directly says.
Hence the discussions of church doctrine, Jewish burial practices, various sources that give differing word meanings, and rhetorical questions, etc. etc. don't (for me at least) establish doctrine. If it is so important that baptism must be a complete immersion to be valid, please show one text that says so.
Have you ever read the Complete LAW + laws that God gave to the Hebrew People?
It's in the LAW, so, it's in every Bible.
For ALL of the History of the Jews [ancient Hebrews], part of their Laws, they have kept in practice now for over 4,500 years. This is how they did, would have in Jesus Day, and STILL Baptize:
the purification rites in Halakha, Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah.
The tvilah is the act of immersion in naturally sourced water, called a mikva.
So Paul, would have meant FULL BODY IMMERSION, like Jesus, ALL JEWS [before then and after] have always done.
it's in the LAW!
It's in the LAW, so, it's in every Bible.
For ALL of the History of the Jews [ancient Hebrews], part of their Laws, they have kept in practice now for over 4,500 years. This is how they did, would have in Jesus Day, and STILL Baptize:
the purification rites in Halakha, Jewish law and tradition, called tvilah.
The tvilah is the act of immersion in naturally sourced water, called a mikva.
So Paul, would have meant FULL BODY IMMERSION, like Jesus, ALL JEWS [before then and after] have always done.
it's in the LAW!
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So you are using Jewish practice to prove immersion?
You may do that if you want. I don't do my doctrine that way. I go by what the text says. There are a lot of things that Jews do that no text says that Christians must do them the say way.
Now if you are using Jewish practice and tradition to help you determine what mode you want to use in baptism. That is OK: I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with immersion as a mode for baptism.
But the above is very different than a doctrine that states that baptism IS immersion and other modes are invalid. Now if you can give me a text that states that baptism must be immersion to be valid then I will accept that as doctrine.
You may do that if you want. I don't do my doctrine that way. I go by what the text says. There are a lot of things that Jews do that no text says that Christians must do them the say way.
Now if you are using Jewish practice and tradition to help you determine what mode you want to use in baptism. That is OK: I have no problem with that. And I have no problem with immersion as a mode for baptism.
But the above is very different than a doctrine that states that baptism IS immersion and other modes are invalid. Now if you can give me a text that states that baptism must be immersion to be valid then I will accept that as doctrine.
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No, I am Jewish, who is Saved by Yeshua, my LORD, GOD, and Savior.
But Baptism, how GOD wanted us to be Baptized, was given in the LAW.
Do You Practice the 10 Commandments? [not religiously but by not committing those SIN?]
if so, that is God's LAW.
so, why would you also not be Baptized the way God Commanded it.
Jesus did, the Disciples did, Paul did, they were IMMERSED under the LAW, and then IMMERSED under Grace and Mercy.
Anyone who Follows Jesus, would be getting Baptized the "same way."
But Baptism, how GOD wanted us to be Baptized, was given in the LAW.
Do You Practice the 10 Commandments? [not religiously but by not committing those SIN?]
if so, that is God's LAW.
so, why would you also not be Baptized the way God Commanded it.
Jesus did, the Disciples did, Paul did, they were IMMERSED under the LAW, and then IMMERSED under Grace and Mercy.
Anyone who Follows Jesus, would be getting Baptized the "same way."
