10 Questions about OSAS

The_Watchers_2017 · Nov 14, 2023

1 Timothy 4:1
But The Holy Spirit speaks plainly that in the last days they shall depart one by one from the faith and they shall go after deceiving spirits and after the teachings of demons

The Bible is CLEAR, the [[they]] who shall "Depart," are considered to be SAVED and going to Heaven.

So, if they do as this Verse explains, they will LEAVE Christ and follow DEMONS.

I suppose, someone is stupid enough to think God's Grace is still going to Reward them Heaven. It's those kinds of People who think THEY SHOULD have been Rapture'd by now, especially, since the WRATH of GOD has been Revealed in this WAR with HAMAS and the Natural Disasters that suddenly are increasing like never before [900 Earthquakes since MONDAY]...that's unheard of..

Stupid UNWISE VIRGINS!

In this Story of the 10 VIRGINS, ALL 10 ARE LOOKING for the Coming of the GROOM. This indicates ALL 10 are SAVED, but, only 5 were Prepared for it.

The WORLD isn't LOOKING for the Coming Groom, only BELIEVERS are LOOKING. ALL 10 Virgins were LOOKING. Only 5 were Prepared.

it's clear, in Threads like this, not many are Prepared at all.

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

NASB Xrefs - Romans 11:22
(New American Standard Bible (1995 Update))

kindness
Ro 2:4 — Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
if you continue
1Co 15:2 — by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Heb 3:6 — but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Heb 3:14 — For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

will be cut
Jn 15:2 — "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

ESV Xrefs - Romans 11:22
(New American Standard Bible (1995 Update))

provided you continue in his kindness
1Co 15:2 — by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Heb 3:6 — but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
Heb 3:14 — For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

you too will be cut off
Jn 15:2 — "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

I don't understand when christians break their covenant with God, they don't expect Him to judge, esp. knowing judgment starts at the house of God?

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

1 Timothy 2:15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
We must continue in the faith to be saved. No one & done will do.

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

Mark 13:13
New International Version
Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

New Living Translation
And everyone will hate you because you are my followers. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

English Standard Version
And you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

King James Bible
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

New King James Version
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Edify · Nov 14, 2023

Mat 24:13
English Standard Version
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

DRobinson · Nov 14, 2023

PennEd said:

If one does not believe and trust in Jesus Christ, and the indwelling Holly Spirit to keep them saved, are they truly saved?
Seems they must trust in their own actions (works) if not.

Cameron143 · Nov 14, 2023

One thing that has always puzzled me about those who believe one can lose their salvation. If we needed grace to be saved, why would we need it any less after we are saved? And if we do, why is grace sufficient for salvation, but unable to keep us.
It seems to me God would have taken us out of an impossible condition only to put us in a new position equally impossible for us.

The_Watchers_2017 · Nov 15, 2023

Cameron143 said:

How did God show GRACE?
the Sacrifice on the Cross for Salvation.
It was an ACT done by GOD.
therefore, we are Saved by Grace.

Here's the Perfect Biblical Definition of showing what GRACE is:
Romans 3:25, Paul says that God was a “propitiation” for our sins in order to declare His righteousness to the sinner.

GRACE, is what GOD did on the CROSS.

But the Reformed, has turned this ACT of GRACE into a CONDITION.
there are NO VERSES that even come close to saying this.
But, the Reformed made it into a Doctrine.

If someone preaches a LIE, and those who hear BELIEVE the LIE, it's hard to fix stupid.

if you walk away from the WORKS, that Jesus did on the Cross [His Act of Grace and Mercy], there's no Condition anywhere in the Bible that says you're still Saved.

Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, all speak about the ACT on the Cross, or the WORKS, that Jesus did. Nowhere does it say this Condition is extended if you choose to Reject God.

the Condition we did get from Jesus, was a DAILY PRAYER. and in that Prayer, Jesus said, if you [do not] forgive others, the Father, will not forgive You. So, both Repentance, every day by saying this Prayer, and giving forgiveness is the key to being forgiven. Nowhere does it say, go ahead and Refuse this, You're still Saved by Grace. No, that LIE, came from the Reformed Pulpits.

Adelia · Nov 15, 2023

In the Daily Prayer it says " and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Matthew 6:15 tells us if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours. I get your point though.

oyster67 · Nov 15, 2023

John146 said:

An apostate is a man who does NOT struggle against sin anymore. He wallows in it like a pig in mire.

2 Peter 2:22
“But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

This verse is crystal clear in its meaning and if you choose to reject it then it is on you.

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2023

Edify said:

Descriptive of genuine believers. We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith..

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2023

oyster67 said:

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature." Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

Edify · Nov 15, 2023

mailmandan said:

New International Version
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
New Living Translation
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
English Standard Version
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Berean Standard Bible
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Berean Literal Bible
But the one having endured to the end, he will be saved.
King James Bible
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
New King James Version
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
New American Standard Bible
But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved.

Cameron143 · Nov 15, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

How did God show GRACE?
the Sacrifice on the Cross for Salvation.
It was an ACT done by GOD.
therefore, we are Saved by Grace.

Here's the Perfect Biblical Definition of showing what GRACE is:
Romans 3:25, Paul says that God was a “propitiation” for our sins in order to declare His righteousness to the sinner.

GRACE, is what GOD did on the CROSS.

But the Reformed, has turned this ACT of GRACE into a CONDITION.
there are NO VERSES that even come close to saying this.
But, the Reformed made it into a Doctrine.

If someone preaches a LIE, and those who hear BELIEVE the LIE, it's hard to fix stupid.

if you walk away from the WORKS, that Jesus did on the Cross [His Act of Grace and Mercy], there's no Condition anywhere in the Bible that says you're still Saved.

Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, all speak about the ACT on the Cross, or the WORKS, that Jesus did. Nowhere does it say this Condition is extended if you choose to Reject God.

the Condition we did get from Jesus, was a DAILY PRAYER. and in that Prayer, Jesus said, if you [do not] forgive others, the Father, will not forgive You. So, both Repentance, every day by saying this Prayer, and giving forgiveness is the key to being forgiven. Nowhere does it say, go ahead and Refuse this, You're still Saved by Grace. No, that LIE, came from the Reformed Pulpits.

When Paul prayed 3 times to have a problem removed, it was revealed that grace was sufficient, not healing. The grace that saves is also the grace that sustains. Without grace, we all fall away.

Edify · Nov 15, 2023

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creationg under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

notmyown · Nov 15, 2023

the threats and warnings are real, just as the promises are real.

unfortunately, some see only one or the other.

mailmandan · Nov 15, 2023

Edify said:

Who is it who stands firm to the end? Believers or unbelievers? Do you believe that those who are born of God remain in a lost state in their lifetime until the end?

PennEd · Nov 15, 2023

DRobinson said:

This is a good question. I've struggled with it some.

I want to be careful not to sweep away all those that believe Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is insufficient to keep them saved.

At one time I also believed one could lose their Salvation. Eventually, through the Holy Spirit enlightening the Scriptures, and through more mature brothers and sisters in Christ , I saw the destructive folly that horrible doctrine of losing salvation wrought. Not only in myself, but MANY others.

Was THIS sin it? Had I walked away from Church for too long?
Does my anger, lustful thoughts, lack of help towards others prove that last sin was the one that made me fall away?

Oooh does the Devil revel in a child of God twisted up in their thinking like that! Makes them completely ineffective in bringing others to Christ through The Gospel.

But once the truth was revealed that was all a lie, as completely counter-intuitive to human logic and thinking as it was, this revelation actually set me free to be the Christian God intended!

Sin was greatly reduced as MY effort, and constant looking and thinking about me, and my sin, went away, replaced by looking at HIM, and HIS effort.

My desire to help and love others was greatly enhanced. It's not appropriate to talk about all the works I've done since then, as God alone get's the Glory. But suffice to say, it's been night and day.
Church became a joy, and not a chore. I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

So, just like I'm sure there are some who claim eternal security but haven't truly been born again, there are some who seem to be confused about who exactly keeps them saved, that actually are, but haven't been enlightened to the fact they will ever remain a born again child of God.

That's why I engage in these threads. Some are confused, like I was, and some are wolves, looking to injure the flock.

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