where can you run, that Jesus is not there?
Also. Wwen a sheep wanders away, what does the word say. He leaves the flock, His sheep hear his voice
people don't return because they are not sheep.
The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security
- Thread starter Evmur
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Also. Wwen a sheep wanders away, what does the word say. He leaves the flock, His sheep hear his voice
people don't return because they are not sheep.
so we are saved, unsaved, saved unsaved, saved unsaved.
I pray you do not die inbetween that period of time you lost salvation, before you repented and were saved again
Because sinners cannot fall away from being sinners. I thought that was a no-brainer.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; watch. Your adversary the devil prowls about as a roaring lion seeking whom to devour,
This is not true
He died for all. He came to all. And he sent his church to all.
We must chose to recieve his gift. He will not force it on us.
Lets not destroy a great Op with fatalism.
I see happiness as a atate of being; hence as in the joy of the Lord. Without that, there will always be grumbling I think.
To fall away from grace is not to fall away from salvation.
The Galatians fell away from grace, they was still saved, Paul still addressed them as brothers. The false teachers yes THEY are accursed but the Galatians Paul wrote to woo them back from their folly.
If they go back to obeying the commandments in order to maintain their status of being saved they would be cut off from Christ, He would not avail for them.
THAT'S the condition of the church today, folks are saved, nobody is denying their salvation but their faith is not working, their prayer life is dried up, bible gathers dust, the joy is gone. Though they are saved all the blessings of Christ seem to have been cut off from them, He doesn't avail for them.
They have fallen for the false message of salvation by works. Their salvation and their service depends upon their own "freewill" their "choosing"
I'll tell you summat
That is not enough to hold young hearts in this world today.
They will fall as sure as eggs, what you are asking them to do is to pit their young wills against the wiles and strong temptation of the devil, people have mercy upon your children, they do not stand a chance. It's no good berating them, crying hell fire and judgement at them, they'll run away. Of COURSE they will.
Is there no hope then? there is but folks don't want to listen. Arminius must be abandoned with his "free" will and choosings. His probationary stop start salvation. Come back to the pure grace and truth to be found in Jesus.
Come back, come back to Jesus. Come back with empty hands having no plea. Cry "Lord if Thou canst do anything have mercy upon us"
THAT'S how you came to Him at the first. Come back to the cross where all you can do is receive.
But I warn you God may answer you in a way you were not expecting Him to answer ... you might find yourself among the happy clappers where they yell and cry out.
Imagine an epistle that starts with "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ whom we have chosen of our own free will"
It is almost laughable.
Jesus said "You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you" We are God's elect, or His chosen people.
In order to choose we would need to have free will but Paul says we were slaves of sin, slaves of Satan, in bondage to the elementary spirits of the universe. None of that spells free will.
They have turned everyone to his own way and esteemed Him not. What then?
The answer is God must subdue that "free will" which has led us into rebellion. He subdues us with love, with kindness [sometimes love and kindness of the rougher sort] He lassos us like the cowboy lassos the wild bull or horse and brings us down to the dust. He hogties us so that we can't move every which way.
The bible says "He wills IN US to do of His good pleasure" it may seem like we are choosing but really it is Him IN US who is choosing.
There was a day when Smith Wigglesworth [I wonder if you have heard of him] was preaching in the north of England and there was a young man at the back calling out and heckling disrupting the meeting, He chose the wrong preacher to do that for Wigglesworth was a bluff Yorkshire man and nobody with any sense will argue with a bluff Yorkshire man.
Wigglesworth leapt off the platform and made his way to the back, the young feller took fright and ran for the door but Wigglesworth made a flying rugby tackle and brought him crashing to the floor and pinned him to the floor. The young man screamed "let me go, let me go"
Wigglesworth said "repent and believe and I'll let you go" ... "I repent, I believe, I repent, I repent" so Wigglesworth let him go.
Of course the young feller didn't get saved like that but actually after a couple of weeks he did repent and get saved.
All that doesn't fit what we discussing but I thought I'd throw it in.
Imagine an epistle that starts with "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ whom we have chosen of our own free will"
It is almost laughable.
Jesus said "You have not chosen Me but I have chosen you" We are God's elect, or His chosen people.
In order to choose we would need to have free will but Paul says we were slaves of sin, slaves of Satan, in bondage to the elementary spirits of the universe. None of that spells free will.
They have turned everyone to his own way and esteemed Him not. What then?
The answer is God must subdue that "free will" which has led us into rebellion. He subdues us with love, with kindness [sometimes love and kindness of the rougher sort] He lassos us like the cowboy lassos the wild bull or horse and brings us down to the dust. He hogties us so that we can't move every which way.
The bible says "He wills IN US to do of His good pleasure" it may seem like we are choosing but really it is Him IN US who is choosing.
There was a day when Smith Wigglesworth [I wonder if you have heard of him] was preaching in the north of England and there was a young man at the back calling out and heckling disrupting the meeting, He chose the wrong preacher to do that for Wigglesworth was a bluff Yorkshire man and nobody with any sense will argue with a bluff Yorkshire man.
Wigglesworth leapt off the platform and made his way to the back, the young feller took fright and ran for the door but Wigglesworth made a flying rugby tackle and brought him crashing to the floor and pinned him to the floor. The young man screamed "let me go, let me go"
Wigglesworth said "repent and believe and I'll let you go" ... "I repent, I believe, I repent, I repent" so Wigglesworth let him go.
Of course the young feller didn't get saved like that but actually after a couple of weeks he did repent and get saved.
All that doesn't fit what we discussing but I thought I'd throw it in.
I agree with the main points of your response and want to thank you for the humor! The next time I am told that I am being too serious I will throw in your Wigglesworth ( flying rugby tackle ) story
Don't you just love it when people saywe can't choose Christ, then say falling away means sinners choosing not to come to Christ?
We can choose to deny Him , but not to come to Him?
Sounds backwards to me.
We can choose to deny Him , but not to come to Him?
Sounds backwards to me.
2 things here. 1st I do not pretend to understand everything in scripture ( only believe it ). I am referring to John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
2ndly to me; falling away means one was somewhere and chose to leave I refer to Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame
Imagine an epistle that starts with "blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ with whom he will only save those he chose. and not allow anyone to even have a chance to be saved.
That should make the whole world angry, including a God who states he is all loving.
I believe God ( who is all knowing ) knows who will accept His salvation and who will not. I believe what the Lord told Jeremiah applies to everyone.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,...
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,...
remember in hebrews.
it does not say they fell away
the word says
"it is impossible IF THEY FALL AWAY, to renew them to repentance".
He is telling people who are tryign to go back to the law. if they go back to a religion where people can fall away. That if you could fall away (if it were possible) you could not be renewed.. You would be lost forever. and even stating you can fall away puts the death of Christ to open shame
You can't choose to be someone else, what makes Judas what he is? or Peter? Peter denied the Lord 3 times.
We all know the natural process of child birth but who can understand how the soul is planted? Who would know if that soul will be wicked or righteous?
Have you ever tried to understand the inner man of a vicious raper or murderer? the inner man of Hitler or Stalin? They don't look or sound any different to other Germans or Russians.
God DOES see, He knows and the first line of Predestiny and Election is "those who God foreknew He also predestined...."
Why don't you trust God, trust His wisdom.
Wheat are not tares
wolves are not sheep
snakes are not doves
It's impossible because repentance is once and forever ... that falling away is not unto damnation but to judgement however fiery and fearsome it does not amount to damnation.
It's the same as Paul says to the Corinthians that folks who build upon God's salvation with wood and stubble will be saved but as through fire, their reward will be burned up.
All men will be drawn to Christ lifted up on the cross, some unto salvation some unto judgement.
The cross is a sweet savour of LIFE to us who believe but to those who reject it it is the foul odour of death. Corinthians.
Predestiny and election is according to what what we are inwardly.
Election is not unto salvation per se but unto the church. We are predestined and elected to be conformed to the image of the Son of God.
Chosen in Christ before the world was begun to be a people for the praise of God's glorious grace. That's what predestination and election is.
... others can still be saved.