Israel Declares War

[HeIsHere]

Was sorely tempted to put a Loony Toons "Awww Shudup" meme here. That's how much that comment is. Their identity is Arab. Send it to 23 and Me, it's coming back Arab, not Palestinian. No such people, that is FACT! Your opinions don't matter. What matters is the truth!! You don't know it!

Sorry but I have not read one word of truth on this subject yet from you, but John Hagee would be proud.

You even put an indifferent emoji on the death toll in Gaza (which included children, babies)

I find it very telling, how those who ascribe to "newspaper eschatology" have very hardened hearts to human suffering when it is not their team.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry but I have not read one word of truth on this subject yet from you, but John Hagee would be proud.

You even put an indifferent emoji on the death toll in Gaza (which included children, babies)

I find it very telling, how those who ascribe to "newspaper eschatology" have very hardened hearts to human suffering when it is not their team.

What's hilarious is her objection to the term "Palestinian", yet here is a post she made USING it!!! (post #2741)

Palestinians have voted Hamas in as their voice and speaks for them. They are not poor lost souls. They are not victims here. Israel isn't counterfeit, that's untrue.

I told her 47.3% of the Palestinians are under 18 and weren't even around when the election took place in 2006. She doesn't care... she doesn't view them as victims of Hamas or of Israel... but she calls them "Palestinians" even though she's now trying to delete their identity. It's really sad to see...

 

[Smoke]

but, as Christians, we are not supposed to seek revenge.

i mean, about 6000 in gaza have been killed so far, so that is 5 times as many as Israel lost.

so, it is horrible for both.

palestiains are human beings, you know.
God loves them too ( not the terrorist, i am speaking of civilians )

She doesn't believe Palestinians exist anymore nor does she view the blown up babies as victims of Hamas or Israel.. Crazy stuff.

 

[NightTwister]

This thread is long past it's use-by date.

 

[Magenta]

Sorry for missing your point. Nevertheless, do we agreed that someone against conscription still has a
[financial] burden and wouldn't be hypocritical for expecting to be defended by the services he's funded?

No, I think that is pretty much the epitome of hypocrisy.

 

[Smoke]

No, I think that is pretty much the epitome of hypocrisy.

To fiance a service and expect to get use out of it?

 

[Magenta]

To fiance a service and expect to get use out of it?

No... to expect others to do for you what is required of you but you refuse to do.

 

[HeIsHere]

She doesn't believe Palestinians exist anymore nor does she view the blown up babies as victims of Hamas or Israel.. Crazy stuff.

It puts Christians in a very bad light, seems like Israel is intent on destroying itself and other civilians because it is consumed with anger and vengeance and here we have Christians defending what is clearly evil for the sake of some supposed greater good.

Those who support Israel, or any country for that matter unequivocally, and have done so based solely on an emotional attachment, seem to have a distinct inability to face reality and the facts.

And they call us evil and aligned with Satan.
Crazy stuff indeed.

 

[Magenta]

To fiance a service and expect to get use out of it?

When one derives freedoms and benefits from being a citizen of a certain country yet refuses to participate when called upon to protect their rights and privileges, but will sit back and allow others to protect their freedoms, rights and privileges? Yes, I would call that the epitome of hypocrisy. The libertarian view that subscription makes one a slave and the sense of entitlement that allows one to refuse while sitting back to allow others to essentially slave for your safety and wellbeing smacks of quite a high form of hypocrisy. Hence, epitome.

 

[HeIsHere]

Not that I endorse any civilian deaths in any war(children,elderly ect.) but I notice that you used the words "(A) refugee camp" and it occurs to me that you and others may be thinking that there is a refugee camp set up in Gaza as a designated safe area during this current war. The proper term for the place your mentioning is the "Jabalia refugee camp" that was set up in 1948... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps Jabalia's name is still "Jabalia refugee camp" although since about 1987 Jabalia was also used as a major stronghold for Hamas fighters . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabalia_refugee_camp I have no idea why the civilian population did not leave after the IDF dropped the leaflets in northern Gaza telling them to go south other than in their customs the members of a Hamas fighters family would stay to cook,clean clothes ect. for him. Anyway I thought I would mention the part that this is not a current safe haven for civilians called Jabalia refugee camp it's actually a Hamas stronghold used to launch attacks from and the media isn't pointing this out(they know westerners don't know this and will assume the IDF is bombing a designated safe area) when both the Gazaian's and the IDF know it is a Hamas stronghold). Here are the solders from Jabalia https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/jabalia-soldiers.html?sortBy=relevant

Do you know where they were supposed to go?

Do you know how densely populated Gaza is?
You think you can just leave and go live nowhere, a person needs access to food and water, and that was already rationed before October 7th.
Do you know that the IDF was also bombing the south and those trying to get there so people decided whats the point of leaving my home to go to another place where I still could be killed.

So then maybe they killed one Hamas and killed 100 civilians many of whom are again children.

If a shooter goes into a school and holds a gun to a child's head do the police just go and kill everyone to get to the one with the gun?

 

[Cameron143]

It puts Christians in a very bad light, seems like Israel is intent on destroying itself and other civilians because it is consumed with anger and vengeance and here we have Christians defending what is clearly evil for the sake of some supposed greater good.

Those who support Israel, or any country for that matter unequivocally, and have done so based solely on an emotional attachment, seem to have a distinct inability to face reality and the facts.

And they call us evil and aligned with Satan.
Crazy stuff indeed.

The claim has been made that Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians. It's a false claim. Israel has the ability militarily to destroy all life in Gaza. What it is doing is systematically degrading the military ability of Hamas. They are targeting militarily personnel and supplies. The civilian casualties are caused by Hamas using their own citizenry as shields.
I would suggest that it is you and others who are reacting emotionally. No one here is celebrating the loss of these lives. That is the practice of the depraved who do such and take pleasure in others who do so. But the only solution is to destroy Hamas and put measures in place to ensure that another group of their ilk is not allowed in.
I gave a solution that in the long term saves countless more lives than anything you propose. You don't even have a solution that makes sure this doesn't happen again. What you envision actually ensures ongoing civilian deaths. But by all means, think you care more because you make an appeal for current lives to the detriment of a multitude more future lives.

 

[iamsoandso]

Do you know where they were supposed to go?

Do you know how densely populated Gaza is?
You think you can just leave and go live nowhere, a person needs access to food and water, and that was already rationed before October 7th.
Do you know that the IDF was also bombing the south and those trying to get there so people decided whats the point of leaving my home to go to another place where I still could be killed.

So then maybe they killed one Hamas and killed 100 civilians many of whom are again children.

If a shooter goes into a school and holds a gun to a child's head do the police just go and kill everyone to get to the one with the gun?

I don't think they would leave either way to them it's their duty to stay and support their family members who are Hamas. On the other hand if it were me I think I would have gone on the south side of the Gaza river like the leaflets said instead of staying in a place where you knew the IDF would target after OCT.7th...

 

[Magenta]

So then maybe they killed one Hamas and killed 100 civilians many of whom are again children.

Maybe? Why do you repeatedly misrepresent?

 

[HeIsHere]

The claim has been made that Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians.

Yes, it is well documented Israel's war crimes over the years in books, in journals, by eyewitness accounts, by investigators and reporters who have been in Gaza.
When you have power, clout and money, it is possible to not be held to account, much like the war crimes of the USA in Iraq in search of the non existent weapons of mass destruction.

You want to understand this conflict go back to the late 1800's forward, go really deep, it may take you ten years but it will be well worth it.

Read the eyewitness accounts of the Nakba, Plan Dalet, read about Britain's double dealings and remember collective trauma like for the Jews is also generational for the Arabs.

Until there is a cease fire there is no solution. I am in favor of a cease fire are you?

 

[Gideon300]

Far from communicating that God has two distinct peoples, the Scriptures from beginning to end reveals only one chosen people purchased “from every tribe and tongue and language and nation” (Revelation 5:9).

As Paul explains, the “mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 3:6).

Israel is not a Christian nation and no one should imagine that it is. Israel exists because God willed it so. Israel is plain evidence that God can keep His promises in spite of every obstacle being placed in the way. Israel should have been stillborn. Hardly any military, an airforce of obsolete aircraft and no Navy defeated 5 invading Arab armies. As prophesied, Israel is the nation "born in one day".

Palestinians were not driven out. 20% of Israel's population is Arab. They have the same rights as any other Israeli citizen. Palestinians left at the behest of the 5 enemies of Israel. The idea was that they would return as soon as Israel was destroyed. 75 years later, Palestinians are still waiting. Why? Because God has seen to it that Israel remains a visible testimony to His power.

Romans 11:25-27

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

 

[Gideon300]

Do you know where they were supposed to go?

Do you know how densely populated Gaza is?
You think you can just leave and go live nowhere, a person needs access to food and water, and that was already rationed before October 7th.
Do you know that the IDF was also bombing the south and those trying to get there so people decided whats the point of leaving my home to go to another place where I still could be killed.

So then maybe they killed one Hamas and killed 100 civilians many of whom are again children.

If a shooter goes into a school and holds a gun to a child's head do the police just go and kill everyone to get to the one with the gun?

Every death or injury is entirely the responsiblity of Hamas, be it a militant, Israeli soldier, Gazan civilian or Israeli. Full stop. Israel knows what "useful idiots" are saying, but they have a duty of care to their own people. It's either deal with Hamas now or let Israelis pay the price for ever. The only mistake Israel has made is allowing Hamas to get so strong. They won't make that mistake again.

 

[Gideon300]

Sorry but I have not read one word of truth on this subject yet from you, but John Hagee would be proud.

You even put an indifferent emoji on the death toll in Gaza (which included children, babies)

I find it very telling, how those who ascribe to "newspaper eschatology" have very hardened hearts to human suffering when it is not their team.

I am God's side. Whose side are you on?

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, it is well documented Israel's war crimes over the years in books, in journals, by eyewitness accounts, by investigators and reporters who have been in Gaza.
When you have power, clout and money, it is possible to not be held to account, much like the war crimes of the USA in Iraq in search of the non existent weapons of mass destruction.

You want to understand this conflict go back to the late 1800's forward, go really deep, it may take you ten years but it will be well worth it.

Read the eyewitness accounts of the Nakba, Plan Dalet, read about Britain's double dealings and remember collective trauma like for the Jews is also generational for the Arabs.

Until there is a cease fire there is no solution. I am in favor of a cease fire are you?

Sure. Just convince Hamas. But that will never happen. So come up with something that works.
I don't really care about the past. I don't care about assigning blame. I only care about dealing with the here and now, and fixing the problem. A cease fire won't happen. So, do you have a solution that works, or just more useless rhetoric?
Either you want a real solution, or just a continuation of the same.

 

[Underwhosewings]

Jeremiah 30:7-11 KJV
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

[8] For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

[9] But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

[10] Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

[11] For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

 

[HeIsHere]

just more useless rhetoric?

My conversation with you is over.

No political resolution comes in a vaccuum, the understanding of history is essential.