Israel Declares War

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evyaniy

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what do 9/11, the war against Afghanistan, the war against Iraq, the Madrid train bombing, the London subway bombing, the war against Libya, the war against Syria, the covid "pandemic", the covid shots, the "war" in Ukraine, the invasion of western nations, the war against the Palestinians, have in common?
 
Moses_Young

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hornetguy said:
You are obviously very young and do not understand the necessity of drafting able-bodied men (and women) to help in the defense of their country during times of war.
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You are obviously falling for the devil's lie that the ends justifies the means. At least you are consistent with your defense of the war crimes being committed in the name of defeating a handful of criminals.

If a country is worth saving, it's womenfolk will willingly bear its children, and its menfolk will willingly fight to defend it. If a government needs to rape its womenfolk to force them to give birth, and enslave the menfolk to force them to defend it, the country (perhaps the government?) is not worth saving. Let it fall.

hornetguy said:
Or, just give it all up, and say "can't we all just get along?" hope you can speak Mandarin or Russian... or both.
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I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Raping and enslaving simply to save my own sorry skin (or worse, the sorry skins of those in government) is not a depth which I intend to plumb.
 
Cameron143

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Moses_Young said:
It's called slavery, and it's a crime. Forcing someone to perform any kind of service against his will is slavery, and is a crime against humanity. Sexual slavery is popularly denounced these days, but military slavery is also quite popular, 'though just as wicked. So if the military is legitimate - and I'm assuming that it is, as it is being described as a military - then the soldiers have consented. If it is a slave army (and I agree there are legitimate reasons for claiming this) - or perhaps a military with embedded slave soldiers - slightly different rules would apply. But for the sake of simplifying the discussion, it's probably easier to discount the slave army component. If we want to talk slave army, that's another crime against humanity for the Israeli government.
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They do consent to the service; they haven't consented to the conditions that cause it to be necessary.
 
Moses_Young

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Cameron143 said:
They do consent to the service; they haven't consented to the conditions that cause it to be necessary.
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So to answer your moral question, they've consented to the risks. A child or civilian does not consent, which is why it's considered more evil to kill these. Sort of like how rape is considered more evil than prostitution.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Moses_Young said:
So to answer your moral question, they've consented to the risks. A child or civilian does not consent, which is why it's considered more evil to kill these. Sort of like how rape is considered more evil than prostitution.
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The evil is what causes the problem. For some the consequences are greater than for others, but the source for both is the same.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Countries that conscript

Algeria

Angola

Armenia

Austria

Azerbaijan

Bolivia

Brazil

Chile

Colombia

Cuba

Cyprus

Denmark

Egypt

Eritrea

Estonia

Finland

Greece

Iran

Israel

Jordan

North Korea

South Korea

Kuwait

Latvia

Libya

Lithuania

Mexico

Republic of Moldova

Morocco

Mozambique

Myanmar

Norway

Qatar

Russia

Singapore

Sweden

Switzerland

Syria

Taiwan

Thailand

Tunisia

Turkey

United Arab Emirates

Ukraine

United States (abandoned in 1973), but registration is still required among men ages 18–25

Venezuela
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

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Magenta said:
Countries that conscript
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I could come up with a bigger list of countries that rape. Or any manner of atrocity. Just because something is popular don't make it right. Which is kinda the issue here.

The state of Israel is a popular country with many, due to the religious beliefs of these people. But just because something is popular doesn't make it right. War crimes are being committed at the same level (or worse) than those committed by the Nazis, and people are still supporting the Israeli government. Just as history makes the supporters of the Nazis look stupid and evil, those Christians who are supporting today's Nazis (the Israeli government) in its war crimes are going to be a shame for the church in future times.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Moses_Young said:
So to answer your moral question, they've consented to the risks. A child or civilian does not consent, which
is why it's considered more evil to kill these. Sort of like how rape is considered more evil than prostitution.
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Until a prostitute is raped. How often women are blamed for rape is shameful.
Moses_Young said:
I could come up with a bigger list of countries that rape. Or any manner of atrocity. Just because something is popular don't make it right.
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Didn't say it was right.
 
shittim

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Moses_Young said:
You are obviously falling for the devil's lie that the ends justifies the means. At least you are consistent with your defense of the war crimes being committed in the name of defeating a handful of criminals.

If a country is worth saving, it's womenfolk will willingly bear its children, and its menfolk will willingly fight to defend it. If a government needs to rape its womenfolk to force them to give birth, and enslave the menfolk to force them to defend it, the country (perhaps the government?) is not worth saving. Let it fall.

I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Raping and enslaving simply to save my own sorry skin (or worse, the sorry skins of those in government) is not a depth which I intend to plumb.
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we should rather seek, find and walk out His plan for our lives, that is the only way we will hear, well done, good and faithful servant", and not, "Get out of my presence, I never knew you".
That is why we were given the gift of life.
He wasn't kidding when He said there is one way, one truth, one life.
blessings:)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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I wonder what would happen if a conscripting country was in a war, and those
libertarians who are against conscription were not defended against enemy attack.
Would they cry foul, desiring the benefits of being a citizen without carrying any of the burden?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Moses_Young said:
If a government needs to rape its womenfolk to force them to give birth, and enslave the menfolk to force them to defend it, the country (perhaps the government?) is not worth saving. Let it fall.
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What in the sam hill are you talking about? I was talking about the US and the selective service.... men being drafted for the military, which you said was "slavery"..... now you're out where the buses don't run, talking about raping women and enslaving men?
What is wrong with your mind?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Moses_Young said:
War crimes are being committed at the same level (or worse) than those committed by the Nazis,
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you are an uneducated dunce. You obviously don't know the depths of depravity that the Nazi regime sunk to. You should close your mouth, and go study what actually happened under Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini
 
ZNP

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Magenta said:
I wonder what would happen if a conscripting country was in a war, and those
libertarians who are against conscription were not defended against enemy attack.
Would they cry foul, desiring the benefits of being a citizen without carrying any of the burden?
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Yes, but suppose those same citizens who didn't carry any of the burden had previously been calling the citizens who did carry the burden as "deplorable" and "irredeemable" and "domestic terrorists". Would they repent?
 
ZNP

ZNP

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hornetguy said:
What in the sam hill are you talking about? I was talking about the US and the selective service.... men being drafted for the military, which you said was "slavery"..... now you're out where the buses don't run, talking about raping women and enslaving men?
What is wrong with your mind?
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Good point, if you are out where the buses don't run is a country worth saving?
 
Smoke

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Magenta said:
I wonder what would happen if a conscripting country was in a war, and those
libertarians who are against conscription were not defended against enemy attack.
Would they cry foul, desiring the benefits of being a citizen without carrying any of the burden?
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There is a financial "burden" since everyone pays taxes. So someone who is against conscription is still paying into the armed services. If they were against conscription AND they didn't pay taxes, then I would agree with your point that it would be hypocritical to expect that person to be defended.

Women may not be required by law to sign up for the draft, but they still carry a financial burden. Thus, they should be protected as well.

On a side note, the topic of conscription exposes modern day feminism. It's not about equality. If it was, they would be fighting for women being required to sign up for the draft. Feminism doesn't do that. It only fights for the advantages of one side, not equality for all.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Smoke said:
There is a financial "burden" since everyone pays taxes. So someone who is against conscription is still paying into the armed services. If they were against conscription AND they didn't pay taxes, then I would agree with your point that it would be hypocritical to expect that person to be defended.

Women may not be required by law to sign up for the draft, but they still carry a financial burden. Thus, they should be protected as well.

On a side note, the topic of conscription exposes modern day feminism. It's not about equality. If it was, they would be fighting for women being required to sign up for the draft. Feminism doesn't do that. It only fights for the advantages of one side, not equality for all.
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But women have fought for that... and other career choices that have them working alongside men and what happens? They are mercilessly harrassed and abused.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Smoke said:
Why are you asking me this when I have asked you numerous time if the West Bank and East Jerusalem are being occupied by Israel?
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Because only countries are sovereign and can be occupied.


Smoke said:
I ask again and you're pretending I said "Palestine" as if it was a modern day country (never even used the term country) and ignored my direct naming of the occupied territories of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Why can't you just answer the question instead of playing games?
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Where are you not getting what I'm saying?! BTW being ill isn't an excuse for anything. I've always been direct! Palestine isn't a country, nor is the West Bank nor Jerusalem. Only a country is sovereign and can be occupied.

That's part of my objection. Not clear enough? Here's a video that is more in depth.

 
Magenta

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Plus protection is extended to all citizens regardless of tax-paying ability. The "scenario" was only meant to question the viability of libertarian claims, such as those who might normally be conscripted but object on some grounds such as saying it is enforced slavery, for instance. I am on my phone... ugh!
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Moses_Young said:
The state of Israel is a popular country with many, due to the religious beliefs of these people. But just because something is popular doesn't make it right.
.
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Israel is the only democracy in the ME, one of the reasons it's important for them to be friends with America.

Moses_Young said:
War crimes are being committed at the same level (or worse) than those committed by the Nazis, and people are still supporting the Israeli government.
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No!! Just 110% No. Watch Schindler's List, only a movie but a decent depiction of the realities that happened. Or the Hiding Place, free on Youtube a Christian woman whose family hid Jews and were sent to the camps for it. Get back to us and hopefully your heart and understanding will be changed.




Moses_Young said:
Just as history makes the supporters of the Nazis look stupid and evil, those Christians who are supporting today's Nazis (the Israeli government) .
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You're 100% blinded by lies and propaganda. If this was my site, you'd be gone with that comment.
 
Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Plus protection is extended to all citizens regardless of tax-paying ability. The "scenario" was only meant to question the viability of libertarian claims, such as those who might normally be conscripted but object on some grounds such as saying it is enforced slavery, for instance. I am on my phone... ugh!
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Could be worse. You could be on the clock. Being on the clock does have some benefits...you are always on time. But I wouldn't suggest sleeping on your watch.
 
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