Could you tell me what is your understanding of the great commission in Matt. 28 and Mark 16?
God's ONE Baptism For His Body!
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in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
If they have faith, the Holy Spirit has already been at work in them. That's the point of going through an explanation of verse 37. What Peter actually says is they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That is different than the work of the Spirit in salvation. The gift of the Spirit is similar to what the disciples experienced on Pentecost and is evidenced by many throughout the book of Acts subsequent to their believing. It is the sealing of the Spirit referred to in Ephesians 1:13 as an earnest of our inheritance.
You are inadvertently mixing the work of baptism on our part as a means of grace. It doesn't comply with Ephesians 2:8-9, so it won't fit into salvation by grace regardless of how you present it.
For Mar 16, the "baptized" is baptism by the Holy Spirit, not water baptism. It is possible to believe with a man produced belief yet unless one has also been baptized by the Holy Spirit, that belief is not, nor can it be, a true belief, and the person is unsaved. Only a belief that results from the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that with spiritual efficacy, and thereby does it remain, and the person saved.
[Mar 16:16 KJV] 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
For Mat 28:19, the baptizing was part of the teaching, not part of becoming saved. No mention was made in those verses was of salvation.
[Mat 28:19 KJV] 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
What you seem to keep losing sight of is that Jesus alone is the Saviour, man is not. However, you keep returning back to it being a requirement of man's work, not of Christ's. Just a hint, but whenever you reason yourself into a position that requires something of man for his (or anyone's) salvation, you've gone far from the correct gospel track. In all of your posts regarding baptism, you have not once mentioned Jesus as far as I can recall.
Do you see the "not putting away of the filth of the flesh"? That is referring to water baptism which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit in using the removing the filth of the flesh, and is performed by man, not God. Instead, as it tells us, it is "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Christ is the Saviour, man is not.
[1Pe 3:21 KJV] 21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I agree, if they have faith the HS is working in them by hearing the word. The gift Peter is referring to is the sealing you mentioned which places one in Christ where they have forgiveness of sins. If they were to get spiritual gifts, it would be by the laying of the apostles hands.
I do believe water baptism is how grace is applied. Peter says be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and that agrees with Jesus saying whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. When Paul was converted, Ananias said And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ He still had his sins and all he had left was be baptized in the name of Jesus.
Well that's your story and you're sticking with it. Thankfully, understanding salvation isn't required to be saved. I do appreciate you sharing.
I see it. I know of no where in scripture are we told baptism is symbolic. What's in parenthesis is describing what baptism is. It's not a bath but an appeal to God for a good conscience. So if we take out what it is we are left with what it does. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus. Rom. 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
There is no way Mark 16 is baptism by the HS. Let me ask you this. If someone was taught Jesus correctly but baptized in Johns baptism (water), would they receive the HS and would they need to be (water) baptized in the name of Jesus?
Only one part, and it is received upon being born again. Just quiet yourself and tune in...
Romans 8:16
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
The Apostles are long gone, and God is still passing out spiritual gifts.
Grace is applied the moment a man calls upon the name of the Lord to be saved. Grace is through nothing less or more than the Blood of Jesus. Matters not if you think otherwise. One way, one truth, and one baptism.
What verse/s would you use to support that?
I'm sorry but Jesus clearly instructed baptize the believers and after His sacrifice He said Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, Not Whoever believes
The apostle Paul after all he had done still had his sins and Ananias says And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ Being baptized in the name of Jesus is calling on His name.
It is NOT an "appeal" to God for a good conscience but is actually having received a good conscience by the Holy Spirit through Christ.
Why would two baptisms be necessary? The verse says "not the putting away of the of filth of the flesh" - putting away the filth of the flesh is water baptism - and is only symbolic of the cleansing and removal of spiritual sin, but not the actual removal of it As the verse says, that will not save us, instead, the baptism that saves was brought by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The 'good conscience " is given through being spiritually baptized (cleansed) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit, by which, we are truly cleansed of sin spiritually with nothing further needed. Being washed in water is meaningless for the removal of sin and was intended only as demonstration. The filth of sin exists upon our soul in the spiritual realm, not upon our skin in the physical realm - doing something in the physical realm has no significance whatsoever in the spiritual realm - to be significant, it has to actually occur in the spiritual realm, however, it is not possible for man to make that happen.
Again, you just simply cannot accept that Christ is the Saviour in all ways and that man is not. I believe it is all by Christ and nothing by man, So, there is just too large a divide between us to make discussion meaningful.
The only way that salvation and the Holy Spirit can be given to someone is if they had been chosen for it by God. That is why the Bible refers to it as a gift, anything less than that and it wouldn't be. Nothing in man's power can make that happen.
[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
It's a gift because there is NOTHING we can do to earn it.
May I suggest the chosen are those added to Christ. The body of believers are the chosen. The chosen is like saying the church or the body. chose us in him before the foundation of the world Anyone believing the gospel can be added to Christ and are therefore the chosen.
When Paul is grieving over the Jews who did not believe the gospel, look what he says is going to do to save as many as he can.
I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. Paul is trying to make them see by making them jealous. He knows only a remnant will be saved but he is trying to convince as many as he can.
In the prior chapter he says they have all heard the gospel. 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.”
He doesn't say, well they've all heard and the chosen have spiritual heard and go on his way. He works even harder to save as many as he can by making them jealous. Jealousy is from within them. He is trying to stir them up. We don't see him pray to God asking to increase the number of chosen.
That part isn’t in P72, the oldest Greek version we have. It appears to have been added later in Sinaiticus. The single letter O appears above the other letters between udatos and kai. Vaticanus doesn’t help clear things up either. It just leaves me with more questions.
Interesting, I haven't noticed that before. I use BibleHub to see Greek word use. The Lexicon has antitupon and Strongs has the O. Either way the prior verse indicates what Peter is talking about because he definitely points out water. He says they were saved through water.
were brought safely διεσώθησαν
(diesōthēsan)1295: to bring safely through (a danger), to save thoroughly
throughδι’
(di)1223: through, on account of, because of
[the] water.ὕδατος
(udatos)5204: water
I hate that it leaves you with more questions. Me, I keep it simple. Peter says they were saved and mentions water in the prior verse. We know without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus instructed the apostles to convert the sinner by (water) baptizing them in His name. So it make sense Peter is speaking of water baptism. Just as the 8 were saved through the water we have to go through the water to be saved. The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved
What do you make of it even considering the questionable additions?
I can see you have had enough of me and that's fine. I hope there are no hard feelings. None here. My heart would like to leave you with this. Please continue to look into water baptism (in the name of Jesus) with an open mind. Consider this, IF water baptism is how our sins are washed away (Acts 22:16) and how we are added to Christ (Acts 2:41, Gal. 3:27), don't you think Satan is going to do his best to pervert and do away with water baptism.
One can't be taught baptism wrong and be baptized right. In Acts 19 we see the truth of that. At the end of Acts 18 Apollos preaches Jesus accurately but he only knows John's baptism. Later, ch. 19, Paul meets some of these disciples and asks them did they receive the HS. When they tell him no, notice the question he asks. If the HS does the baptizing upon belief, Paul never would have asked this question.
Also, an example to consider about the power of water baptism. Did the water cleanse Naaman of his leprosy.
God Bless