Bible verses that help us understand the rapture

ZNP · Oct 22, 2023

I think many of us are watching Israel and wondering what the Bible says.

I have been praying about the Lord’s word that the end of the age would be like the days of Noah.

Matthew 24:7 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

When Methuselah died, the longest living human, Noah and his family entered the ark. This was a prophecy fulfilled that when Methuselah died the end would come. Therefore I have been praying to know what the similar prophecy is concerning our days and I think my prayer has been answered,

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap..

Damascus is the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world, we have this prophecy that when it becomes a ruinous heap (just like a dead body) we will have this “day” that is described four times in Isaiah 17. If we saw riots break out when they thought Israel had bombed the hospital, imagine what will happen if they obliterate Damascus, it will be like the days of Lot. Then I discovered what is known as the “Samson option” for Israel where they liken their nuclear bomb to Samson pushing out the pillars and saying “let me die with the Philistines”. That event is a type of the rapture! The church is the pillar and base of the truth, when the church is removed the world system collapses and becomes a “ruinous heap”. I also learned that in the book of Jubilees (not the Bible) it says that the Fall of Man took place exactly 7 years to the day after Eve was brought to Adam and that was the 17th day of the 2nd month, the same day that Noah’s flood started. That seemed interesting to me since Eve being brought to Adam is a type of the church being brought to the Lord in the rapture and the tribulation is God’s judgement on sin.

One other thing I enjoyed is the Bible says that the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light before the great and notable day of the Lord comes.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

If you interpret this as a solar eclipse followed by a lunar eclipse I thought I might be able to use that. So I looked up all the famous predictions of the rapture that and sure enough all but one of them (and there have been 21 since 1948) could be rejected based solely on this prophecy. The one that couldn’t probably could have been because it had been several months after the lunar eclipse meaning we had had several full moons since that time. So knowing the prophecies can be very useful in discerning and rejecting many disturbing predictions.

I figure you will get a whole bunch of responses saying no one knows the day or the hour and trying to tell us to stop talking about this. Yes, such an attitude ignores about 25% of the Bible. But more importantly the prophecies tell you what you need to know to reject false predictions. For example the one prophecy I gave you eliminates 20/21 of the false predictions made since 1948. If you add in the verse that says when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies look up for your redemption draws nigh, then you can eliminate 21/21.

Two critical criteria, Jerusalem needs to be surrounded by armies and it will take place within a month of a solar eclipse immediately followed by a lunar eclipse.

ZNP · Oct 22, 2023

No verse is of its own interpretaiton

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Put these verses together and you can see that although no one knew at the time the day or the hour, the did know the signs to watch, and they were told when they see these signs begin to come to pass to look up because your redemption draws night.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I add this verse because He dropped the word "day". He never says we don't know the year or the season. But now He doesn't even say we don't know the day. By itself it is just one verse, just as "no one knows the day or the hour" is just one verse.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

This verse suggests that not knowing at what hour the Lord comes is only for those who are not watching.

How are we supposed to understand the Lord's word that we don't know the hour?

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Because you don't know the hour you are supposed to be watching. A farmer doesn't know the hour to harvest, so he must watch. A pregnant woman doesn't know the hour the baby will come so she is supposed to watch. You don't know the hour a thief will come so you have night watchmen.

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Why do believers take this word that you don't know the day or the hour to mean "don't watch"? The Lord makes it clear the meaning is the opposite. You don't know, so you have to watch, you have to know the signs, you have to know the prophecies.

Mark 13:34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

OK, but He is only commanding the Porter to watch, right?

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Nope, He said this to all of us.

ZNP · Oct 22, 2023

What difference does it make?

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If Once Saved always saved meant all believers would be raptured prior to the rapture the Lord would not have said this. The pre tribulation rapture is an escape, not all believers will be worthy.

1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Omegatime · Oct 22, 2023

The Day of the Lord is one of the keys to understanding end time events. It is a time to assemble ourselves and yet cannot happen till after the antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God per 2 Thess 2. Gain knowledge why the prophet Joel said Great and Terrible Day of the Lord and Peter said Great and Notable/Glorious Day of the Lord.

Artios1 · Oct 22, 2023

I know we disagree on this …. mainly because none of the scripture in the gospels could contain anything about the rapture …

The gospels contain their perspective time frame (Jesus here on earth) and the rapture is contained within the grace administration which wrapped up in the mystery of the one body (Jews and gentiles fellow heirs) and was not made known until Paul received it by revelation.

All scripture in the gospels has to do with post rapture tribulation times.

Omegatime · Oct 22, 2023

Artios1 said:

I know we disagree on this …. mainly because none of the scripture in the gospels could contain anything about the rapture …

The gospels contain their perspective time frame (Jesus here on earth) and the rapture is contained within the grace administration which wrapped up in the mystery of the one body (Jews and gentiles fellow heirs) and was not made known until Paul received it by revelation.

All scripture in the gospels has to do with post rapture tribulation times.[/QUOT
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If the rapture is at the end of the Tribulation where do these people come from?

Isaiah 65
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the child shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
or bear children for calamity;[c]
for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their children with them.

Dan 7
And to him was given dominion
and glory and kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

Artios1 · Oct 22, 2023

Omegatime said:

My statement could have been worded better
[All scripture in the gospels has to do with post rapture tribulation times.]

All scripture in the gospels is referring to the tribulation times (Day of the Lord or Lords day) which will take place at the termination of the grace period, which will be the "gathering together unto Him" (rapture). ...Technically after the rapture the Day of the Lord begins

ZNP · Oct 22, 2023

Omegatime said:

2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

1. A falling away comes first. -- The same word "apostasia" is used in Acts 21:21 saying that Paul taught the Jews to forsake Moses. It is understood to mean defection or revolt. We see this in the new age movement. There has been a defection or revolt from the Bible. I am a Gideon, many churches refuse to fellowship with us because we believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, they do not. They believe the Bible is sexist and out of date. Their are many verses in the Bible they refuse to obey. So then, the apostasia has come first.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

If you say that this verse or that verse is not God's word, then what are you saying about your word? Who has the right to say what is and is not God's word but God Himself? The ones who do this exalt themselves.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This word translated "letteth" means

to hold back, detain, retain
1. from going away
2. to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of)
  1. that which hinders, Antichrist from making his appearance
  2. to check a ship's headway i.e. to hold or head the ship
3. to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of
to get possession of, take
1. to possess

So who is holding back, detaining, restraining, and hindering the Antichrist? Surely this must refer to the Holy Spirit but also to the Spirit filled believers who are one with the Holy Spirit. This is the same word as verse 6 which is translated "withholdeth". We know the Holy Spirit and those that are one with the Spirit will restrain until they are taken out of the way. This phrase taken out of the way could be translated to "become from out of the midst" or "to be assembled from out of the midst". To be taken out of the midst is a reference to the rapture.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

We refer to him as "The Antichrist" but it isn't clear if the New Testament does. John talks about many "antichrists", pretty much anyone who rejects Jesus as Lord. But here Paul calls him "that Wicked". This is truly a very evil being. So prior to this wicked being revealed we have the rapture, then he is revealed and he is revealed in the tribulation.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is this strong delusion? It is a lie that the whole world believes in, and this lie is sent after the rapture when the Wicked is revealed. People rising out of the graves, just like when Jesus rose from the dead, only many, many more worldwide. Children are taken. Devout Christians are taken while the worldly ones are left. The lie will be that the Wicked is the Christ and those that were taken were the wicked. Probably it has to do with UFO's abducting them. Also the fallen angels will be called "good aliens" here to help us. This is a lie that will cause all those who love lies to be damned.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a contrast here between those who receive the gospel preached by Paul and those who believe the great delusion.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

There is a lot of pressure today to not stand fast because of the apostasy. That is how we know we have come to this point in time.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

ZNP · Oct 22, 2023

Artios1 said:

Are you saying tribulation of Christians does not take place prior to the last seven years? How do you explain what happened to Paul and all the apostles? How about Christians who were placed on a pike and lit on fire as human torches, that doesn't qualify as tribulation? Christians have had churches burned, pastors imprisoned, thousands, perhaps millions have been martyred over the last two thousand years and that is not tribulation?

Where is the Biblical support to say that Christians do not experience tribulation except for the last seven years of the age?

Nehemiah6 · Oct 22, 2023

ZNP said:

Yet there is not a word about the Rapture in your OP (to correspond to the title). Mostly about the Second Coming of Christ. At the same time Christians should be more involved with winning souls before the Second Coming, since that is Christ's priority.

This war in Israel is not the key to anything. The building of the third temple in Jerusalem must take place before the Antichrist is revealed. After that there will be many more events until the Second Coming.

Marianneg · Oct 23, 2023

hi and thanks for posting this verses about the second coming I think . I have also tried to read about the rapture and I think there are verses in first corintins 15. Paul says that we are going to get new bodies and he talks also about what will happen with the one that gone before us. I think He write about that in First thessalonicans. I have reed about rapture from Andy Woods ministries. He says that we will have new bodies and meet our relatives in we Jesus takes us upp in a blink. He also talkes about the second coming when Jesus comes in verse 19 and then comes and angel and throwing out the dewil.
But i think personally that its easy be confused about second coming and first. Where will he come and what will Happen. I just have faith in that he will winn in the end and thats most important

ZNP · Oct 23, 2023

If we are going to understand the rapture, this chapter is central

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

There is an assumption by many Bible teachers that "after this" refers to "after the church age". They support this by saying the church is not mentioned again until the end of the book. That would be consistent with this interpretation, but should not be confused with proof. However, "come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" is certainly evidence that this is referring to what takes place after the church age. Again, we should be careful about jumping to conclusions, because from this point on we do see things that happen hereafter, but hereafter what? This chapter gives us the "starting point".

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

On the throne is God, and sitting around the throne are four and twenty elders, not angels. We are told very clearly in the gospels that the dead are not in heaven, they are in Hades. So this is a very big clue. Jesus is not the only one in heaven at this time, we have at least 24 elders sitting on seats around the throne who are also in heaven. Some assume this means the rapture has taken place and I sort of agree, it does mean some men, these elders have been taken up to heaven. I believe that took place at Jesus resurrection. The graves were opened and a number of men were seen in Jerusalem. In order to celebrate first fruits you wave a sheaf of Barley, not a single stalk. Jesus and these elders were resurrected at the same time.

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

We are told in Revelation 1 that the candlesticks are the churches. However, this word for lamps is not the same word as the word for candlestick. I think we all agree that there is a very clear relationship between seven lamps of fire burning before the throne and the seven candlesticks, but the interpretation that this means the church is now in heaven is only one possible interpretation, there are others. Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. 7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. 8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

In conclusion, I do not see any clear evidence that what we are looking at here is at the end of the church age, it could just as easily be after the resurrection. John was told to come up hither and he would see the things that take place hereafter, and the book of Revelation definitely shows us the things that happened hereafter. But that doesn't mean the vision begins with the end of the age, it could have begun from the moment of Jesus resurrection, and that is what I believe Revelation 5 clearly says.

ZNP · Oct 23, 2023

This scroll is opened right after the Lord rose from the dead (part 1)

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The meaning of the scroll is best understood by recognizing the truth in each of these ideas:

A Catalog of Judgments - Judgments of lament and mourning and woe attend the opening of each seal (and the subsequent trumpets and bowls). In this, the scroll is similar to Ezekiel’s book (Eze. 2:9-10 +). “When the Lamb breaks the seals, it is not merely a disclosure of the scroll’s contents, but an activation of those contents.”7
Prophetic Revelation - As the seals are removed from the scroll, events unfold which are the fulfillment of prophetic themes found elsewhere in Scripture. When the scroll has been completely unsealed and the seventh trumpet has sounded, it is said that “the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets” (Rev. 10:7 +). See Related Passages and Themes.
A Testament - The testamentary nature of the scroll is seen in the fact that only the slain Lamb can open it (Heb. 9:15-17; Rev. 5:9 +). Opening the scroll ultimately brings about the outworking of unfulfilled promises of the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-37; Rom. 11:26-27; etc.).
A Deed of Purchase - By opening of the scroll, the Lamb takes as His inheritance that which He had already purchased (Rev. 5:9 +). His inheritance includes an enduring kingdom and the title deed to the earth (Ps. 2:6-8). “But what is this remarkable scroll? It is nothing less than the title deed to the earth itself. . . . it is clearly the antitype of all the rich typological teaching associated with the divinely specified procedures for land redemption in the Old Testament.”8 “The sealed scroll is the deed of purchase for mankind’s tenant possession inheritance or administration of the earth that was forfeited when mankind fell away from God. . . . a scroll deed of purchase was made when Christ paid the redemption price to redeem mankind’s tenant possession of the earth by shedding His blood on the cross.”9

https://www.preceptaustin.org/revelation-5-commentary

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

This is how I understand "antichrist". Every man prior to Jesus was a counterfeit, only Jesus was the genuine "christ", anointed one to be king. This includes sages, prophets, and philosophers. Many people desired to open this scroll but couldn't. This is what Paul said here:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

A catalog of judgements, a deed of purchase, a testament, a prophetic revelation. This is what Paul is also referring to.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

This is much clearer reference to the timing, this is the most clear reference to when this took place. There are seven lamps of fire by the throne, similar to seven candlesticks on earth being the church, that doesn't mean the rapture has taken place. There are 24 elders sitting in seats by the throne, these also rose from the dead when Jesus did, that doesn't prove the rapture has taken place. The book of Revelation is the conclusion of the Bible, you don't bring in new doctrines, new teachings in the conclusion. According to Paul the epistles reveal what is in this scroll. Everyone agrees the scroll reveals Jesus redemption, that is not something we have to wait until after the rapture to learn about. Also consider this, if Revelation discusses what is in this scroll and what is revealed in this scroll how can John tell us unless this scroll has already been opened? For example how do we know that the number of his name [antichrist] is 666 if the scroll has not already been opened?

ZNP · Oct 23, 2023

This scroll is opened right after the Lord rose from the dead (part 2)

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

We were told by Peter that we have been made into a royal priesthood. This was revealed in the epistles and it will be fully revealed at the rapture and that is the difference. Think of what is happening in the church age as being veiled from unbelievers. If you are not in the Holy of Holies or the Holy Place you cannot see what is happening in there. But at the rapture even unbelievers will see who was made into a kingdom of Priests. This is why I think there is confusion. Yes, all of this has been opened at the time of the resurrection, but if you are not in the Holy Place it is still a mystery to you and will not be revealed until after the rapture. For example there are two prevailing interpretations concerning the first seal, one is that it depicts the gospel of Jesus Christ going into the whole earth, the other is that it depicts the counterfeit Christ deceiving the world. Both of those have been going on for two thousand years. You cannot have a counterfeit gospel until you first have the real gospel. But if you read Galatians and James, the first two epistles written, it is clear that as soon as the gospel went out there was also a counterfeit gospel.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Later in this book we will see a huge number of saints who are in heaven, but at this point the only people that are referred to are the "elders". It might be as little as 24 men in heaven with the angels and the beasts.

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Jesus received all this at the time shortly after His resurrection. Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

ZNP · Oct 23, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Understanding the second coming helps you understand the rapture. The title is not specifically on the rapture but Bible verses that help understand it.

For example "why"? If you don't understand "why the rapture?" you don't understand it.

Every prophecy is a piece to the puzzle, that includes Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17.

These prophecies are very useful for winning souls so I don't understand the point you are trying yo make.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 23, 2023

ZNP said:

To understand the Rapture (or the Resurrection/Rapture) there is another whole group of verses which are not even mentioned by you. Your focus is elsewhere. Most Christians do not really understand the purpose of this tremendous event, but start wrangling about Pre-Trib and Post-Trib.

ZNP · Oct 23, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Not interested in that debate, if you understand why we have the tribulation then it is obvious why we have this debate over pre trib and mid trib

Nor am I interested in replaying the key verses on the rapture. That would only lead to the same old debate.

The most important question for me is what should we be doing in light of the rapture and what should we be watching for, and why should we be watching. All of this is part of our mission as witnesses, so if you want to carry out the great commission the 25% of the Bible that is prophetic will help you greatly.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 23, 2023

ZNP said:

“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This section of scripture is describing a moment of rapture when we will all be together with the lord forever ……it’s where the term came from later it became synonymous with being “ caught up suddenly into heaven “ but the other parts tend to be left out how the world ends and the dead are raised up and then those still alive will be caught up suddenly changed

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

1 for the trumpet shall sound,

2 and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

3 and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

2 and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

3 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:

and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Notice how you have this consistent order the lord returns with the sound of trumpet , the dead are raised up and then those still left alive are transformed and caught up to the clouds with Jesus and all the dead who were raised up.

after they are raised up that day

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The rapture doesn’t actually exist in the Bible it’s a term men used to describe the moment of bliss when we’re all delivered from death onto everlasting life which the Bible declares will happen when Jesus returns to gather his people and destroy this world with fire

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ( this is the lake of fire)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That fire comes with Jesus

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord

This world is going to be set ablaze we need salvation

achduke7 · Oct 23, 2023

ZNP said:

What does Paul say in Acts?

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Blade · Oct 23, 2023

ZNP said:

Be oh so wonderful to just chat about it huh. Just a few posts in and its already started. Even after saying you didn't want to debate. Me always looking up always ready now. Always thinking about Him and how I am living. Oh to always be ready always have HIM on my mind. See I don't look for something happening in the world. I read Him telling the 12 face to face that He was leaving for His Fathers house that has many rooms and if He goes He will come back and get them so where He is they will be. See all my life I look at everything every story every movie "as if it was me". It just happens so if I was there knowing everything this man did every word He said He kept it. So I watch Him go up.. yeah Hes coming back for me when? I don't know but I am ready. Its so easy now for use to come up with all kind of theories but back then they only had the Torah.

So yeah always knowing any moment.. AWESOME PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS! See I am not here to prove I am right your wrong.. just want us to look up be ready I think this is also what the OP is saying.. could be wrong sorry

Bible verses that help us understand the rapture

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