Israel Declares War

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
I'm saying in most democracies, leaders aren't killed by the people or by political rivals. They are killed by wealthy organizations working behind the scene.
You don't think "wealthy organizations" are "working behind the scene" with our politicians? :oops::oops::oops:

I mean, most of the assassinations of politicians and foreign leaders, including the ones we help replace, have been politically motivated. I do agree though, "wealthy organizations" do "work behind the scenes"... but wealthy and organizations usually get in bed with politicians.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
Indiscriminate?

When did they do this, before Hamas declared war on Israel in Oct 6?
Got it. You're just reiterating your stance that it's only a war crime to murder civilians if you're not in a war, but if you are in a war, then anything goes. There is your common ground with Hamas.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
You have to prove it was a war crime, and that Israel just threw bombs wherever with no notion of where they went, and did not pick military targets which are free reign, and that civilians happened to die in the process of this, which has happened in every war since time began.
I think Israel genuinely wants to kill Hamas terrorists. I think they genuinely targeted the terrorists. However, I also think they knew the targeted areas were densely surrounded by Palestinian civilians (mostly children) but it wasn't a deterrent. They decided that the Palestinian civilians' lives were worth sacrificing if it means the possibility of killing Hamas terrorists. That fits the definition of "indiscriminate" killing/bombing.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,440
3,220
113
It doesn't matter. One war crime (e.g. terrorism) doesn't absolve one of another war crime. It just means there are two sets of criminals who rightly should be brought to justice.
You need to grow up. Israel is not targeting civilians, if for no other reason than to avoid internaitonal condemnation. If I jump out front of a bus, it's my bad. If someone pushes me in front of a bus, it's their bad. Hamas started the conflict. They will sacrifice Gazans just as readily as they slaughtered innocent Israelis. If Hamas is not stopped now, when? If they are allowed to get away with this attack, it will happen again, just as it has been happening for the last 75 years, one way or another.

The only way to peace is to kill or remove every Hamas and IS fighter. Peace requires either goodwill on both sides (non-existent) or one side to lose the ability to wage war. Israel knows this all too well. They've tolerated Hamas since Hamas took power in Gaza. This time Hamas went too far. I've no doubt this was deliberate, to provoke a response that would drag Iran into the war. Hamas consists of people who have no conscience. If that is the kind of people you think should have free rein to as they please, then you need to think again.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
Got it. You're just reiterating your stance that it's only a war crime to murder civilians if you're not in a war, but if you are in a war, then anything goes. There is your common ground with Hamas.
Brilliant!!
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
I absolutely hope Israel eradicates Hamas. However, someone should tell them there is no need to "defend" themselves against Palestinian civilians, especially children, by blowing them up in their homes in hopes they get kill the Hamas terrorists.

That is the very meaning of "throwing the baby out with the bath water". But hey, we are all pro-life right... :rolleyes:
Have you ever been at war with anyone?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
Got it. You're just reiterating your stance that it's only a war crime to murder civilians if you're not in a war, but if you are in a war, then anything goes. There is your common ground with Hamas.
once again, Have you ever been at war. and are you over in Gaza right now witnessing Israel blindly bombing things?
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
If the US gets involved in this conflict, hopefully we won't use an atomic bomb to "discriminately" kill Hammas terrorists. It may "end the war faster" and "save countless lives" as some of you believe. It would probably destroy Israel (collateral damage), but some of yall would argue "it's a necessary evil" to bring the end to war in the middle east. :rolleyes:
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
I think Israel genuinely wants to kill Hamas terrorists. I think they genuinely targeted the terrorists. However, I also think they knew the targeted areas were densely surrounded by Palestinian civilians (mostly children) but it wasn't a deterrent. They decided that the Palestinian civilians' lives were worth sacrificing if it means the possibility of killing Hamas terrorists. That fits the definition of "indiscriminate" killing/bombing.
So what should Israel do.

Not do anything. and continue to allow their people to be attacked.. Which will happen if they do not do anything.

again, Do you know anything about what happens in war?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
If the US gets involved in this conflict, hopefully we won't use an atomic bomb to "discriminately" kill Hammas terrorists. It may "end the war faster" and "save countless lives" as some of you believe. It would probably destroy Israel (collateral damage), but some of yall would argue "it's a necessary evil" to bring the end to war in the middle east. :rolleyes:
why would we use an atomic bomb? Is hamas a threat to kill millions of US citizens like japan was?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
it will happen again, just as it has been happening for the last 75 years, one way or another.
The number of Palestinians killed far exceeds the number of Israels killed btw.

About 15,000 Palestinians were killed in a series of mass atrocities, including dozens of massacres in 1948.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,440
3,220
113
I think Israel genuinely wants to kill Hamas terrorists. I think they genuinely targeted the terrorists. However, I also think they knew the targeted areas were densely surrounded by Palestinian civilians (mostly children) but it wasn't a deterrent. They decided that the Palestinian civilians' lives were worth sacrificing if it means the possibility of killing Hamas terrorists. That fits the definition of "indiscriminate" killing/bombing.
You think that Americans did not kill one civilian in Iraq (twice) or Afghanistan? America was not facing extinction in any of those wars. Same goes for Vietnam. Defending your country against armed attack is not a war crime. The polite term is "collateral damage". It's war. People die. The alternative is to let Hamas destroy the nation of Israel. People have already died, women, children, babies - is that acceptable to you? What you demand is unachievable. Come into the real world. War, death, destruction, hatred and murder will not end until Jesus comes back. In the meantime, pray. That's the best weapon that Christians have.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
I believe as should every Christian every human life has inalienable God given rights ... do you?

I unlike others are not given over to the relentless propaganda machine heard on the nightly news from the left and right.

You make these assertions Islam wants to take over the world, huge broad sweeping statement with no evidence to support it.

What exactly does that even mean do you know or are you just reiterating the latest talking point?
This was 10 yrs ago. Islam has only grown MORE radical and virulent since then:

 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,120
805
113
65
Colorado, USA
You are correct in that there are "tactical nuclear weapons". I still feel "especially" works as it wasn't a prerequisite to be considered indiscriminate.
Unless their are kinds that are not.
As it pertains to the atomic bombs used on Japan, would you label them as "strategic", "tactical" and/or "discriminate"?
We now know that there were many unknowns at the time about the power of those particular bombs. In my opinion they were strategic and discriminate.
My understanding of tactical nuclear weapons is that they don't have the radioactive fallout that the atomic bomb has. I'm not an expert and I may be wrong though.
Tactical nuclear weapons do have fallout, like any nuclear weapon, but with tactical it's limited. There are cases (e.g. caves in Afghanistan) where they could've been used and collateral damage would've been minimal if at all.
Would you say also say the atomic bombs used were more "indiscriminate" in comparison to tactical nuclear bombs? (I don't even know if tactical bombs were around in 1945, but that isn't what I am suggesting they have used. I am saying they should have used more conventional bombs that they did have back then.)
There were no tactical nuclear bombs back then. There were very few at all due to limited amounts of uranium and plutonium. Conventional bombs would not have had the same strategic effect that the nuclear ones did. We have non-nuclear weapons today that can cause more damage than those did.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,440
3,220
113
If the US gets involved in this conflict, hopefully we won't use an atomic bomb to "discriminately" kill Hammas terrorists. It may "end the war faster" and "save countless lives" as some of you believe. It would probably destroy Israel (collateral damage), but some of yall would argue "it's a necessary evil" to bring the end to war in the middle east. :rolleyes:
Not getting overexcited much, are we. The US will not use nukes except just maybe on Iran. I hope not because it is the ayotollahs who are the enemy, not ordinary Iranians. If Israel wanted to use nukes, they would have done it already. Iran is far more likely to use nukes on Israel. That's why they should never be allowed to make them.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
You think that Americans did not kill one civilian in Iraq (twice) or Afghanistan? America was not facing extinction in any of those wars. Same goes for Vietnam. Defending your country against armed attack is not a war crime. The polite term is "collateral damage". It's war. People die. The alternative is to let Hamas destroy the nation of Israel. People have already died, women, children, babies - is that acceptable to you? What you demand is unachievable. Come into the real world. War, death, destruction, hatred and murder will not end until Jesus comes back. In the meantime, pray. That's the best weapon that Christians have.
The distinction between "discriminate" and "indiscriminate" killing was discussed several pages back. I agree that "collateral damage" is often an unfortunate occurrence that happens. The goal should be to limit civilian deaths by being discriminate in your attacks.

Yes, I am certain Americans killed civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope they were discriminate though. If we indiscriminately kill civilians while targeting the terrorists, how is that merely "collateral damage"? It's a war crime.
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,707
626
113
Not getting overexcited much, are we. The US will not use nukes except just maybe on Iran. I hope not because it is the ayotollahs who are the enemy, not ordinary Iranians. If Israel wanted to use nukes, they would have done it already. Iran is far more likely to use nukes on Israel. That's why they should never be allowed to make them.
I kind of regret my post honestly. I was being facetious and apparently my sarcasm wasn't picked up. My apologies.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
37,484
6,926
113
HeIsHere Bias


I am using this definition of Bias: cause to feel or show inclination or prejudice for or against someone or something.

A small fraction of his posts on this thread.

Post 247 — “Israel is the oppressor”

Post 244 — “And what about Israel's devastating and horrific actions?”

Post 242 — Accused Israel of committing Genocide

Post 235 — told the thread to not spread the story about Hamas decapitating babies.

Post 498 — American Evangelicals are brainwashed.

Post 556 — Referred to what is happening in Gaza as “ethnic cleansing”

Post 532 — Israel bought and paid for by the Rothchilds, so there is that.

Post 506 — Thankful each day that the truth is being revealed and the mass psychosis of "Churchianity" is taking is last breaths.

Post 841 Israel exists because the Rothschild made it so.

Post 826 Sustained oppression creates anger and hatred.

Post 824 Since the cleansing of the land that occured in 1948 (of both Christians and Muslims) and the evidence is now clear and has come to light along with the statistics kept by the UN and the Human Rights Watch....... it is the Palestinians who have been disproportionally slaughtered and oppressed...

Post 789 Well, I will admit the Rothschilds' along with Darby and Scofield have put together the most ingenious system of lies.

Post 771 This does not look like a proportional response to me. It is being reported a child is dying every five minutes in Gaza. Most of them too young to have even voted for Hamas.

[Do the math, that would be 288 a day — obviously not true. Also implies all children dying are Israel’s fault, ignoring the fact that 30% of Hamas missiles misfire, like the one that landed near the hospital. Also ignores the fact that it is Hamas that makes legitimate military targets places that will kill civilians.]

Post 948 Imagine how evil to plot two world wars to have the state of Israel come to fruition. It defies belief.

[Imagine the extent to the purported evil HeIsHere ascribes to Israel, they are even responsible for the Holocaust!]

Post 944 God had a purpose for them then, that purpose has been fulfilled. This thinking is the reason there has been so much blood shed.

[This is the heart of HeIsHere theology]

Post 926 Lol wow, I am not talking about scripture, I am speaking about the classification of language groups. Historically Arabs and Jews were both considered Semites, although most people now associate Semite with being Jewish only.

[Defines antisemitism as including Arabs]

Post 1,074 We really cannot accept that the Jews acted in direct violation of International Law as they are doing right now even...

[Claims that the current war is in direct violation of International law]

Post 1,060 Gaza (Hamas) has no where to send rockets from except for on top of their own population because it is so dense.

Post 1,042 You don't want Israel to look guilty for anything so you call for caution when it suits your bias.

Post 1,039 They just want to be first, so they do not take the time to verify, having a breaking story is what matters now, not veracity.

Post 1,038 He was not promoting, gee whiz he was sharing information.

[These two posts justify spreading the story about Israel targeting and bombing the hospital which was proven to be false within a few hours]

Post 1,391 The younger generation gets it, you should listen but you won't. "Israel has the right to defend itself, has now become cover for Israel, has the right to commit genocide right in front of our eyes.

Post 1,389 Change the goalpost. Official Charter of Hamas does not speak for all Islam.

[reference to Hamas charter calling for Israel to be wiped out]

Post 1,240 This is what Jewish exceptionalism has done to Christians, very sad!

Post 1,090 Adopt Convenant Theology it makes a lot more sense.

Post 1,088 What bothers me is the thin veneer of fake righteousness they hide behind and most people cannot see beyond. Extremists are seen for what they are.