Understanding Genesis 1:1
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You are missing the point. The "beginning" was not something that was "created" - it is the time frame of the creation.
I understand what you are saying - and, it is true - but, only in a certain particular sense. The error in your statement is the word 'before' - as the 'creation' (from nothing) was indeed "part of" day one - in fact, it was the [very] "beginning" of day one.
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In the 'grammar of the language', the word 'And' at the beginning of verse 2 is not in the sense of 'sometime later it was found to be [that]'; rather, it is in the sense of 'upon being created [from nothing] it was in a state of existence [such that]'.
Therefore, it is telling us that the creation-from-nothing was the "beginning" of the first day. There is no 'gap' between verse 1 and verse 2 - verse 2 is a description of the "state" of the earth upon being brought into existence from nothing.
Upon being brought into existence from nothing - immediately (not "thereafter", but "right then"/"at that [very same exact] moment in time") - 'the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep'.
To use a familiar idea for illustration - God first 'created' the 'clay' (out of nothing) and then immediately "commenced" to 'shaping' it into what He wanted it to be. (Albeit, the actual 'shaping' starts with verse 3.)
I understand what you are saying - and, it is true - but, only in a certain particular sense. The error in your statement is the word 'before' - as the 'creation' (from nothing) was indeed "part of" day one - in fact, it was the [very] "beginning" of day one.
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In the 'grammar of the language', the word 'And' at the beginning of verse 2 is not in the sense of 'sometime later it was found to be [that]'; rather, it is in the sense of 'upon being created [from nothing] it was in a state of existence [such that]'.
Therefore, it is telling us that the creation-from-nothing was the "beginning" of the first day. There is no 'gap' between verse 1 and verse 2 - verse 2 is a description of the "state" of the earth upon being brought into existence from nothing.
Upon being brought into existence from nothing - immediately (not "thereafter", but "right then"/"at that [very same exact] moment in time") - 'the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep'.
To use a familiar idea for illustration - God first 'created' the 'clay' (out of nothing) and then immediately "commenced" to 'shaping' it into what He wanted it to be. (Albeit, the actual 'shaping' starts with verse 3.)
The Bible seems to say in Col 1:18 that Jesus is the beginning: "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. "
That, to me, seems to answer the question you ask about what the beginning really means. To me, it seems to mean Christ, who is the firstborn from the dead.
Perhaps one way to think of it is that Jesus was first born from the dead so that he could create believers. Believers would be the heaven and the earth part.
The heaven and the earth are both interesting words to define as well. When we see that God created the heaven and the earth, we might possibly use Col 1:18 to substitute the word 'Jesus' with 'the beginning' and get something like: In Jesus, God created the heaven and the earth. I am not advocating changing the scripture but only to show how its meaning might be. Similarly, when we see the word 'heaven', we might get at the meaning of that word by thinking of the true believers with Jesus. The true believers seem to be called 'heaven' in Matthew 24: "gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other "
By substituting for meaning, we might possibly get something like: In Jesus, God created the true believers and the earth.
That still leaves the term 'earth' to define. The Bible tells us that the dry land is called earth (Gen 1:10). Jesus was in a dry place, if you will, on the cross. We see that Joseph, a picture of Jesus, was rejected by his brothers and thrown in a pit, where no water is (Gen 37:24). This was a metaphorical picture of the cross experience. So, to me, the term 'earth' is speaking of the cross experience, both for Christ and for those who bear their cross, if you will, for the sake of Christ.
So, to me, Genesis 1:1 might be thought of as something like: In Christ, God created the true believers with Christ and the cross that they bear for his sake.
Something akin to, in my view, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. " In this case, the phrase 'to live is Christ' being the cross to bear part, and 'to die is gain' being the believers with God part.
That, to me, seems to answer the question you ask about what the beginning really means. To me, it seems to mean Christ, who is the firstborn from the dead.
Perhaps one way to think of it is that Jesus was first born from the dead so that he could create believers. Believers would be the heaven and the earth part.
The heaven and the earth are both interesting words to define as well. When we see that God created the heaven and the earth, we might possibly use Col 1:18 to substitute the word 'Jesus' with 'the beginning' and get something like: In Jesus, God created the heaven and the earth. I am not advocating changing the scripture but only to show how its meaning might be. Similarly, when we see the word 'heaven', we might get at the meaning of that word by thinking of the true believers with Jesus. The true believers seem to be called 'heaven' in Matthew 24: "gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other "
By substituting for meaning, we might possibly get something like: In Jesus, God created the true believers and the earth.
That still leaves the term 'earth' to define. The Bible tells us that the dry land is called earth (Gen 1:10). Jesus was in a dry place, if you will, on the cross. We see that Joseph, a picture of Jesus, was rejected by his brothers and thrown in a pit, where no water is (Gen 37:24). This was a metaphorical picture of the cross experience. So, to me, the term 'earth' is speaking of the cross experience, both for Christ and for those who bear their cross, if you will, for the sake of Christ.
So, to me, Genesis 1:1 might be thought of as something like: In Christ, God created the true believers with Christ and the cross that they bear for his sake.
Something akin to, in my view, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. " In this case, the phrase 'to live is Christ' being the cross to bear part, and 'to die is gain' being the believers with God part.
God has no beginning, so it refers to the current universe as we know it, which is 6,000 years old according to the Word of God. Genesis 1 is the context of Genesis 1:1, like it or lump it. (Really)
The Bible does not say "In the Universe that was already there." So much for your superimposition upon your false analogy. This is the Chronology of the creation of all the stars in all the galaxies as well as man on Earth.
The Bible does not say "In the Universe that was already there." So much for your superimposition upon your false analogy. This is the Chronology of the creation of all the stars in all the galaxies as well as man on Earth.
Thanks GaryA, for your concern. I would imagine that we approach scripture differently. Correct me if I'm wrong about you, but I would imagine that you are looking at the surface text only, and not expecting it to need interpretation beyond a concordance definition of surface words, certainly not as a parable is interpreted. Many people interpret the Bible as you do. To me, the Bible itself tells us that it is written in parable fashion: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable ". And in the New Testament we read: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples " So, unlike you, I consider the word of God, his law, to be written in parable fashion. By comparing scripture with scripture, and asking God for understanding, I hope to understand his use of terms. It is not redefining words to understand what the parable meaning of something is. Rather, it is defining them. For example, in the parable of the seed and the sower, I could look up the word 'seed' in a concordance, or in a dictionary,, and find out that it is defined in a botanical way. However, the 'seed' really refers to the word of God. Similarly, thorns in that parable would only mean thorns, like you find on briers or a rose bush, if you stuck with the dictionary. However, 'thorns' actually mean 'such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful." That is interpreting, not redefining. When you emphatically declare: "Don't do that!" I can only respond that to me the danger is in not doing that. "For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. "
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Where does the Bible say or infer the UNIVERSE is 6000 yrs old? You're also making assumptions of how long the 1st 3 days were. The sun and moon came to be on day 4 which then were used to determine days, etc. And the beginning had already been created prior to day one on which light was created if you understand the meaning of that little word "in" which I've pointed out.
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By use of the word "beginning" means that something existed before, like possibly the universe. There seems to be something existing prior to day one, what, who knows, but trying to lump the entire creation along with day one in my view is an error simply by the use of words that preceded day one in verse 3. By the use of the word "in" at the very start of verse 1, it suggests something was already there, in which the earth and heaven became a part of by God's creation of them. It suggests something had already been created prior to the earth and heaven which I tried to point out by my simple analogy and understanding of the words used, i.e.; "IN the beginning" and not 'at the beginning'. Just something to ponder, but I'm not at all convinced that everything, the universe, the earth and heaven, and light, were all created on day one nor do verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1 suggest that, but on the contrary, verses 1 and 2 suggest otherwise.
The heaven is in some translations, plural, and also can refer to the immediate heaven above the earth, namely, the sky or atmosphere. But I'm with you regarding verse one that it may refer to the universe. The Greek interlinear says "heavens", plural.
Also see Hebrews 11:3 in this regard and see other translations as well, some do translate as universe.
Gen 1:1 (KJV)
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Heb 11:3 (KJV)
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
English Standard Version
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
Also see Hebrews 11:3 in this regard and see other translations as well, some do translate as universe.
Gen 1:1 (KJV)
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Heb 11:3 (KJV)
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
English Standard Version
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
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