about Suicide

[Dino246]

Typical suicidal people today are those who have no hope, and they are thus not in Christ, or they have been moved away from the hope of the gospel and are thus lost. Those with deranged minds, or who "might have a mental breakdown," are those who do not have a sound mind and are therefore not in Christ

There was enough hogwash in the first bit of the OP that I didn't get this far. The above is a clear demonstration that the writer knows nothing whatsoever about mental illness. He is sadly and dangerously mistaken.

Mental illness is about as controllable as any physical disease... not very. Assuming that people who suffer from a form of mental illness couldn't possibly be saved is simply despicable. All forms of mental illness are the result of the Fall, just like everything else broken in this world, and Jesus died to overcome them.

I know several people who have been through one form or another, or still are going through. With that experience, I would no sooner assume they are lost than I would assume the sister with arthritis, breast cancer, or a miscarriage "just didn't have enough faith". A good friend (a retired pastor and rock-solid Christian) recently passed after developing dementia. Another friend (also former pastor and rock-solid Christian) attempted to take his own life several years ago during a bout of depression, but has since recovered fully and is again working as a pastor.

God is bigger than mental illness. I only hope "JimmyTheLock" learns this before he has to face it in someone he cares about.

 

[oyster67]

In Pilgrim's Progress Christian thinks about suicide and then finds he has a key called Promise which unlocks the dungeon door (he was completely without hope after being locked in Doubting Castle by Giant Despair who urged him to kill himself).

Anyone quoiting Spurgeon wouldn't understand since they obviously don't even recognize that are following a false teacher!

Why read Bunyan or Spurgeon when we have Jimmy in our midst?

 

[oyster67]

Suicide is when weak people decide life is just too tough to live anymore because they don't know the Lord

All of us started out not knowing the Lord.

I love you, Jimmy, and usually agree with you, but I really think you got hip-deep in this time.

 

[Anni]

Why read Bunyan or Spurgeon when we have Jimmy in our midst?

Hiya oyster, I don't quite know what to make of him 🙄 You could have knocked me over with a feather when he called the Rev Spurgeon a false teacher. I must be a complete fruit-loop then lol
Sometimes all we can do is pray...

 

[JimmyTheLock]

Most Christians don't ever consider suicide so it's not something that's really discussed or thought about. I don't have any strong feelings about it because it's not something I would ever consider for myself and I don't know any Christians who ever thought about for themselves either.

There's more and more that claim to be Christians that are whacking themselves these days and all the false teachers are claiming they go to Heaven so this is a trick of the devil to get people in to hell.

I supposed one could just think of themselves and not warn others.... lots of that going around as well.

You could use this line of thinking for ANY sin..

It actually IS applicable to all sin.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Not in their success in never sinning again.. Thats not Faith.. thats Works, Works salvation..

So you are one of those the believes it's OK to live in sin... you believe wrong!

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Your arrogance is commensurate with your ignorance.

You just don't recognize real faith when you hear it.

I have fought demons for the liberty of my own soul after having been a homeless drug addict back in my youth... I know spiritual warfare and if one does not know how to not listen to the devil, then they are ripe for satanic deception and defeat!

So you have a 100% perfect record in confessing each sin you ever do or have done.. I doubt that very much..

Romans 3:3,4
Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid

Your doubt has no effect on me.

Too bad you apparently don't know what consecrating oneself unto the Lord is all about...

Suicide is just another sin Christ paid for if you are one of His.

Go review the scriptures posted at the beginning.

When one kills themselves they don't repent and turn away from their sin unless their efforts to kill themselves fail.

Nobody has the right before the Lord to destroy the temple of the Lord... the Lord's Word clearly states that if one destroys the temple (the body that is supposed to belong to the Lord), God will destroy them.

Lots of folks suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) these days as they only believe the happy verses and throw the rest of the Counsel of the Lord away as though it wewre trash. Fatal mistake!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [salvation] not of yourselves: it is the “gift” of God:

Yes, it is the gift of God and when one quits walking with the Lord in faith.... they are no longer abiding IN CHRIST which is turning away from God's grace to go one's own way.

If one does not repent, confess their sin, and come back to faith and abide in Christ baring fruit, sadly they'll find themselves in hell when they croak.

No one is promoting suicide as the better way.

Actually... when the well known false teachers stand up at some guy's funeral that whacked himself and claim the guy went to Heaven.... they are actually promoting suicide by not speaking the truth.

They make it sound as though when one is having a touch time in life it's no problem to blow their brains out and go on to be with Jesus.... when in reality they go straight to hell providing satan and his demons with much joy, pleasure, and satisfaction.

Look around... you'll see that all the false brethren claiming OSAS is true are supporting the idea that killing yourself is all good and is the fast track to going to be with Jesus.

In reality, this is all a twisted and sick trick of the devil to deceive Christians in to turning away from the Lord and going to hell immediately. Those that know anything about spiritual warfare will recognize this.

Perhaps, but we need to gently and lovingly lead them into the Light. He is hope for the hopeless and rest for the weary.

That's true... and God IS Love... and Love would warn them to NOT kill themselves and would tell them the truth that suicide is the fast track straight to hell.

But, those that follow OSAS be telling folks it's all good, go ahead and whack yer self.... this is because the OSAS peoples speak in behalf of the devil.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

You could have knocked me over with a feather when he called the Rev Spurgeon a false teacher.

All calvinists... are false teachers. They suffer from acute Cherry Picker's Syndrome!

I really think you got hip-deep in this time.

No, actually this is a very important topic that the Lord brought to my attention a few years back when some pastor out in California (don't remember the guy's name but his church had like 7 or 8 "campuses") and he committed suicide.

Then, his wife went on their church's spacebook page and claimed he had been suffering from depression (code for did not know God's Word very well, otherwise he would have cast the demons out)

Then other more well know preachers (like David Jerimiah) went to his funeral and told the whole world that when Christians commit suicide they go to Heaven... and since that time there are more and more stories coming out about "Christians" committing suicide these days.

It's a lie of the devil that one can murder themselves and go to Heaven!

People need to be warned about this trick, this snare, this ploy of satan to deceive people in to murdering themselves.

 

[oyster67]

they are actually promoting suicide

No. David Jeremiah is not promoting suicide.

People need to be warned

I agree that they should be shown the true and better way. We need to throw out the Lifeline. I agree also that David J. should not be saying more than he knows, but neither should we.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

No. David Jeremiah is not promoting suicide.

By not telling the truth about what happens to those that commit suicide... he is deceiving people in to believing a Christian can kill themselves and go to Heaven!

He's a false teacher on numerous fronts, including this one.

I agree also that David J. should not be saying more than he knows, but neither should we.

That then leaves us silent on the matter.... Love would warn people of the danger not remain silent.

 

[oyster67]

even to take one's life does not undue what God does in the inward act of salvation. (Saul's Suicide, tape TTW13)

I agree that that we can thank good-ole' Calvinism for this if you want to lay the axe to the root.

All calvinists... are false teachers.

That I will agree with.

That then leaves us silent on the matter.... Love would warn people of the danger not remain silent.

Preach the pure and simple Gospel to all, then. If we focus on sin and salvation, then we have everything else covered. Everyone needs the Lord, not just the one's you referred to as "weak and suicidal".

 

[JimmyTheLock]

Everyone needs the Lord, not just the one's you referred to as "weak and suicidal".

I was remaining focused on the topic of suicide in this thread....of course everyone else needs the Lord.

 

[oyster67]

I was remaining focused on the topic of suicide in this thread....of course everyone else needs the Lord.

Very well then. I will address those contemplating suicide then:

Please don't commit suicide.
There is a far better way.
There is sanctuary, safety, peace, and rest from the storm to be found in a personal relationship with Jesus.
The very same one who made you loves you very much. He wants to come into your heart to stay.
I can personally attest to the fact that when He is all you have, He is all you need.

Isaiah 61:1
“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;”

 

[Evmur]

Those that murder themselves are NOT walking in faith... so, no faith means no grace!

As Eph 2:8 clearly states.... we are saved by grace THRU faith, so no faith mean one has no further access to grace.




I did not write any of the scripture that was posted... so you'll have to argue with the Lord about why He considers murder to be a sin.




So it's all good if we get tired of this life and blow our brains out?

The Lord suddenly ignores His own Word and becomes a liar???

Anyone who has a broken heart and does not submit to the Lord and get fixed, has made a very grave error as this is rejecting the Lord.




That's God's business... meanwhile it's false doctrine to go around telling people that a Christian can murder themselves and still go to Heaven.

As a matter of doctrine, those that murder themselves do not inherit God's Kingdom based on what the Lord has already said in His Word.

If we tell people that one can kill themselves and go be with Jesus... then let's pass the pistol around at church so everyone can whack themselves and go on home to be with the Lord!

Suici9de is either a blessing from the Lord or a deception from the devil to separate people from God... which is it?





Yeah, claiming one can murder themselves and still go to Heaven is definitely being a cherry picker and rejecting scripture that does not fit in to one's preconceived ideas.




Fictional stories are meaningless against God's Word.




It' listening to the devil is what it is... in my younger years 'ol slwefoot tried very hard to get me to off myself after I had become a Christian.

The fix was found in doing what Jesus said....

Mark 16:17
these signs shall follow them that believe; In MY Name shall they cast out devils

It comes down to who are we going to listen to and follow? Jesus or satan?






I know all about it.... you should go back and study how God cannot lie!




Any sin where one does not confess and turn away from... it still applicable to the person doing the sin.

1 John 1:9 clearly says IF you confess your sins the Lord will cleans you of all unrighteousness.

If one does not, then they are not cleansed from unrighteousness and if they die in that condition it's... curtains.




Yews, and God has already spoken concerning this subject.

It's sad that some seem to think the Lord is a liar and will ignore His own Word and can be mocked by claiming we do not reap what we sow (Gal 6:"7,8).





You must believe in universalism then... anybody that is deceived by the devil in to turning away from the Lord is saved?

The problem here is some are allowing their emotions and feelings to tell them what to believe rather than what the Lord has already said in His Word.

In other words, let's throw what God said in the trash just because we don't "feel" like His Word is in fact Truth that does not change!

That's exactly how the devil is hoping people will do right there... as this causes God's Word to be choked out of their lives so they turn away from the Lord which is sowing to the flesh which is reaping corruption... which is unrighteousness

Gal 6:7,8 tells us it is mocking God to claim we do not reap what we sow... as God cannot be mocked.

There is to be a day of judgement. You also will be judged if you are not born again.

King Saul and Jonathan his son both committed suicide, the night before the Prophet Samuel appeared to Saul and told him "this time tomorrow you will be with me where I am" David's eulogy concerning Saul should tell you Saul was not damned.

If I were you I would be greatly worried about your view of God and your own lack of compassion.

 

[notmyown]

They're weak, not like us strong ones? Sounds like Darwinian Evolution.
Rather I think we should be talking about the Lord Jesus, he is the one who has overcome the world, who has overcome death and hell. We should stand in His righteousness, the robe of righteousness that He has given to us, not wearing our own filthy rags.

this is a little off-piste, but since the thread is kind of a train wreck already, i'll risk it.

my husband and i were reading Romans 8 together last week, and we got to verse 37. i remarked how cool it is when Paul, through the Spirit, coins a new word like "more than conquerors". in Greek, it's a combination of huper and nikaó, and carries the understanding of super-conquerors.

i said to him, "do you feel like a super-conqueror?"
he pointed to two words and said, "well, i'm not the one doing it."

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

through Him. to Christ be the glory!

 

[Evmur]

This is similar to Samson.... he is listed in the faith hall of fame in the Book of Hebrews so he did not commit suicide as he was fighting an enemy and killed many of them as an act of war. If someone is going to kill you if you don't renounce your faith, that's not you deciding to end your own life.

Suicide is when weak people decide life is just too tough to live anymore because they don't know the Lord and have rejected His Word that teaches and enables us to be over comers.... decide to murder themselves.

Personally I have been to the edge back when I was a young believer and demons were oppressing me, pushing me to drive my vehicle into an oncoming 18 wheeler.... I've been there and know where these thoughts and desires to murder yourself comes from... satan!

To murder yourself is an act of agreement with the devil and an act of rebelllion against the Lord Jesus Christ!... the act of suicide leads straight to hell and brings great pleasure to satan!

It is not enough to simply hear the gospel. The gospel preached in order to save must be attended by the Holy Spirit. People as preach the gospel without the Holy Spirit attending upon it will have to one day answer to God for that.

 

[Cameron143]

this is a little off-piste, but since the thread is kind of a train wreck already, i'll risk it.

my husband and i were reading Romans 8 together last week, and we got to verse 37. i remarked how cool it is when Paul, through the Spirit, coins a new word like "more than conquerors". in Greek, it's a combination of huper and nikaó, and carries the understanding of super-conquerors.

i said to him, "do you feel like a super-conqueror?"
he pointed to two words and said, "well, i'm not the one doing it."

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

through Him. to Christ be the glory!

This actually is an incredible verse and if people truly understood it, it would revolutionize their lives. Conquerors win. More than conquerors win using what was supposed to destroy us to win.
A while back I went through a divorce that had the potential to destroy my family. I kept possession of my 7 kids. I was very concerned for them as I saw how many children were harmed by divorce. But God used the circumstances to do some incredible things...too many to share here. But my oldest son left for Pharmacy school near the beginning of the trouble. One of the things we would remind each other whenever we spoke was MTAC...more than a conqueror. We had it put on a t-shirt as a memorial.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8:35-37

 

[notmyown]

This actually is an incredible verse and if people truly understood it, it would revolutionize their lives. Conquerors win. More than conquerors win using what was supposed to destroy us to win.

amen! what a mighty God we serve!

and nothing, absolutely nothing, can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(ps-- my first job in high school was pharmacy tech. i worked there for three years, and learned a lot because the pharmacist, Clyde, was an eager teacher and i had loads of questions. i nearly went to school for it.
it's a fascinating field, and when folks ask me a question about a medication, i direct them to their pharmacist. he or she knows far more about it than their physician, in my opinion.)

 

[Cameron143]

amen! what a mighty God we serve!

and nothing, absolutely nothing, can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(ps-- my first job in high school was pharmacy tech. i worked there for three years, and learned a lot because the pharmacist, Clyde, was an eager teacher and i had loads of questions. i nearly went to school for it.
it's a fascinating field, and when folks ask me a question about a medication, i direct them to their pharmacist. he or she knows far more about it than their physician, in my opinion.)

Physicians are generally good at finding the problem. Pharmacists are good at knowing what will fix it.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

If I were you I would be greatly worried about your view of God and your own lack of compassion.

It IS compassion to warn others that suicide leads people to hell... you should check your Truth Meter, it is broken!

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

through Him. to Christ be the glory!

And some who turn away from living in victory thru Jesus... commit suicide and go to hell.

Many would NOT do this if they knew it would send them to hell.

But, all the false teachers are telling everyone that if one kills themselves they will still go to Heaven... and satan and his demons have great joy and pleasure in this!

People as preach the gospel without the Holy Spirit attending upon it will have to one day answer to God for that.

So you think the people control; whether the Holy Spirit watches over God's Word to perform it?

The Lord always abides in His Word and if anyone is preaching the Gospel, the Lord is there to open people eyes if they will submit themselves to Him.

Problem is, much of what is being preached is not the gospel... false doctrine such as calvinism, reformed theology, once saved always saved, and catholicism are not the Gospel.

A while back I went through a divorce that had the potential to destroy my family. I kept possession of my 7 kids. I was very concerned for them as I saw how many children were harmed by divorce. But God used the circumstances to do some incredible things...too many to share here. But my oldest son left for Pharmacy school near the beginning of the trouble. One of the things we would remind each other whenever we spoke was MTAC...more than a conqueror. We had it put on a t-shirt as a memorial.

Seems like MTAC would have enabled folks to reconcile and avoid the divorce and keep the family in tact since God says He hates divorce.

According to God's Word, as long as your ex spouse is alive .... if you remarry you are committing adultery.

The Lord has called both of you to reconcile not move on and marry others simply because you made a vow and should be modeling your life after the Lord and keeping your vows.

 

[Cameron143]

It IS compassion to warn others that suicide leads people to hell... you should check your Truth Meter, it is broken!




And some who turn away from living in victory thru Jesus... commit suicide and go to hell.

Many would NOT do this if they knew it would send them to hell.

But, all the false teachers are telling everyone that if one kills themselves they will still go to Heaven... and satan and his demons have great joy and pleasure in this!





So you think the people control; whether the Holy Spirit watches over God's Word to perform it?

The Lord always abides in His Word and if anyone is preaching the Gospel, the Lord is there to open people eyes if they will submit themselves to Him.

Problem is, much of what is being preached is not the gospel... false doctrine such as calvinism, reformed theology, once saved always saved, and catholicism are not the Gospel.





Seems like MTAC would have enabled folks to reconcile and avoid the divorce and keep the family in tact since God says He hates divorce.

According to God's Word, as long as your ex spouse is alive .... if you remarry you are committing adultery.

The Lord has called both of you to reconcile not move on and marry others simply because you made a vow and should be modeling your life after the Lord and keeping your vows.

A fool and his money are soon parted. In some cases, a fool and his brain are soon parted. I'll leave each to themselves to decide where each applies.