Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

[NTNT58]

cephas is aramic for rock, and the strong's greek indicate is as masculine.

Jesus asked them all, "But what about you (plural)? Who do you (plural) say that I am?" Although it is Simon that answers, it is not that the others did not know that He is "the Christ, the Son of the living God," since in v. 20 He admonishes (them) not to tell anyone that He was the Christ. If anyone believes that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God, it has been revealed to him by His Father in heaven (v.17) and not by flesh and blood. Jesus has the keys to death and hades so access to any keys at all is through Him, not Peter.

Cephas is Greek. Aramaic for rock is kepa - כֵּיפָא • (kēp̄ā)

Jesus is the king who has the keys, he made Peter his stewart. Isiah 22 has a parallel idea to this. A king gives the keys to his stewart, and those keys are passed down to his descendants. The stewart is NOT the king, and all of the authority the keys hold is still tied to the king, but that doesn't change the fact that the stewart has the special keys that nobody else except the king has.

 

[Mem]

Cephas is Greek. Aramaic for rock is kepa - כֵּיפָא • (kēp̄ā)

Jesus is the king who has the keys, he made Peter his stewart. Isiah 22 has a parallel idea to this. A king gives the keys to his stewart, and those keys are passed down to his descendants. The stewart is NOT the king, and all of the authority the keys hold is still tied to the king, but that doesn't change the fact that the stewart has the special keys that nobody else except the king has.

Do you see this is an extension of the priestly lineage? transferred from Aaron to Peter?

 

[NTNT58]

Do you see this is an extension of the priestly lineage? transferred from Aaron to Peter?

Aaron's priestly lineage ended with Christ, who has been and still is our high priest and king.

God gave Moses the highest authority, even higher than Aaron. His authority was passed down to the Pharasees at the time Christ walked the earth. Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ then may or may not have given the keys of heaven to Peter (that's what we're trying to find). If he had, then the Catholic Church is the only true church who's authority is backed by God.

 

[FRB72]

So how does this refute Peter having special authority, which is passed down to his successors? Isiah 22 talks about a steward getting keys and according to tradition of that time, those keys would be passed down to his successor.

I have noticed a tendency to talk at people rather than to them in online discussion groups so I hope you don’t mind what I say here and take my words in the spirit I intend…

Without giving a Greek lesson, the two words for “Peter” and “rock” are different. Peter (the person) is a small stone, Peter’s declaration is a boulder. It is on that boulder (the realisation of who Jesus IS) that the church was to be built.

To give Peter the mandate and ability to veto heaven would have been like giving a child a chainsaw. The history of the Catholic Church is a case study of papal depravity and confusion (with one or two good popes occasionally and briefly holding the seat of Peter). I don’t believe that any of their Ex Cathedra announcements have had any influence on heaven whatsoever.

One of the greatest sins of the popes was to try to suppress and supplant the KJV. Eg In the Douay-Rheims Bible English translation of the Vulgate (Matthew 6:11) reads "give us this day our supersubstantial bread".

I find it hard to understand how you can uphold the value of the KJV yet hold simultaneously take the view that the organisation and leadership that provided the events behind Foxes Book of Martyrs had special divine approval?

 

[Mem]

Aaron's priestly lineage ended with Christ, who has been and still is our high priest and king.

God gave Moses the highest authority, even higher than Aaron. His authority was passed down to the Pharasees at the time Christ walked the earth. Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ then may or may not have given the keys of heaven to Peter (that's what we're trying to find). If he had, then the Catholic Church is the only true church who's authority is backed by God.

Hebrews 3:3 states that Jesus is worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. And two chapter after Matthew 16:19, Jesus tells his disciples, "Amen, I tell you (plural), whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you (plural) loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 18:18).

 

[NTNT58]

I have noticed a tendency to talk at people rather than to them in online discussion groups so I hope you don’t mind what I say here and take my words in the spirit I intend…

Without giving a Greek lesson, the two words for “Peter” and “rock” are different. Peter (the person) is a small stone, Peter’s declaration is a boulder. It is on that boulder (the realisation of who Jesus IS) that the church was to be built.

To give Peter the mandate and ability to veto heaven would have been like giving a child a chainsaw. The history of the Catholic Church is a case study of papal depravity and confusion (with one or two good popes occasionally and briefly holding the seat of Peter). I don’t believe that any of their Ex Cathedra announcements have had any influence on heaven whatsoever.

One of the greatest sins of the popes was to try to suppress and supplant the KJV. Eg In the Douay-Rheims Bible English translation of the Vulgate (Matthew 6:11) reads "give us this day our supersubstantial bread".

I find it hard to understand how you can uphold the value of the KJV yet hold simultaneously take the view that the organisation and leadership that provided the events behind Foxes Book of Martyrs had special divine approval?

As I've repeated many times - I do NOT support RCC. They are evil and make up dogmas just like the Pharisees. However, if they are the true authority, then we have no choice but to submit.

I would not be upholding KJV either if I didn't find evidence to support it.

The original disciples most likely spoke Aramaic or Hebrew, rather than Greek. And Aramaic has the same word for rock. It may have been translated to Greek and masculine Cephas used for Peter because Aramaic word for rock is feminine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talking at people", I have shown the same level of respect as people have shown me.

 

[NTNT58]

Hebrews 3:3 states that Jesus is worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. And two chapter after Matthew 16:19, Jesus tells his disciples, "Amen, I tell you (plural), whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you (plural) loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 18:18).

Yes, I do not support any of the Dogmas that RCC made up. However, Jesus told everyone to obey the Pharasees and they are just as dogmatic if not worse than RCC.

Other disciples had the power to bind and loose, but only Peter was given the special keys.

 

[Mem]

the blue letter bible indicates kefas as masculine. Yet, you've insisted it is feminine. How have you learned this?

Yes, I do not support any of the Dogmas that RCC made up. However, Jesus told everyone to obey the Pharasees and they are just as dogmatic if not worse than RCC.

Other disciples had the power to bind and loose, but only Peter was given the special keys.

Okay, if that is true then, who has the keys now?

 

[NTNT58]

the blue letter bible indicates kefas as masculine. Yet, you've insisted it is feminine. How have you learned this?



Okay, if that is true then, who has the keys now?

Kefas is Greek. Kepa is Aramaic and feminine. The disciples most likely spoke Aramaic or Hebrew.

Peter chose his successor, and so on, so the line of succession is supposedly now at Pope Francis.

 

[Mem]

Kefas is Greek. Kepa is Aramaic and feminine. The disciples most likely spoke Aramaic or Hebrew.

Peter chose his successor, and so on, so the line of succession is supposedly now at Pope Francis.

Why do you say 'supposedly,' do you suspect him to be an imposter?

 

[NTNT58]

Why do you say 'supposedly,' do you suspect him to be an imposter?

If Jesus did indeed give the special keys to Peter, and Isiah 22 parallels this idea, then Papal succession would lead the authority to Pope Francis, and the Catholic church would be the only true church. If not, then they are imposters.

 

[posthuman]

this is the Copy that Jerome claimed to have seen, copied from the Matthew in the Hebrew/Aramaic Language. It also Verifies the claim made by several, but first was Papias: "Matthew set the Oracles in order in the Hebrew dialect,” “and each interpreted them as best he could”


you are free to use what Language to English Version you so choose, for the Gospel of Matthew. it still remains secondary to Matthew's true Original Hebrew Version, (before the Greek), now translated to English. plus, according to Papias, the translated Versions is {{a as best he could translated, Version}}.

No one has the Hebrew of Matthew.
that doesn't allow us to imagine it said whatever we wish.

instead, what God chose to do, was give us Greek texts and a Latin translation of them.

 

[FRB72]

As I've repeated many times - I do NOT support RCC. They are evil and make up dogmas just like the Pharisees. However, if they are the true authority, then we have no choice but to submit.

I would not be upholding KJV either if I didn't find evidence to support it.

The original disciples most likely spoke Aramaic or Hebrew, rather than Greek. And Aramaic has the same word for rock. It may have been translated to Greek and masculine Cephas used for Peter because Aramaic word for rock is feminine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talking at people", I have shown the same level of respect as people have shown me.

By condemning talking at people, I was holding myself accountable to a certain standard in my interaction with you on this question.

First it would appear that the ancient Near East was a melting pot of languages and it would seem likely that many people would have a grasp of a few languages, with Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew all being used for various reasons by various groups.

There are two specifically Catholic assertions that I would like to challenge. First the automatic conference of divine approval and authority on those who occupy the seat of Peter, second of the dual keys claimed by the RCC. These claims seem on historical and logical inspection to be fallacious.

Do you genuinely hold to either or both of these RCC positions?

 

[Cameron143]

Regardless of whether you believe Peter was given a special authority or not, God is under no obligation to continue through an apostate line. He simply removes the candlestick and Spirit and continues somewhere else. People follow titles. Christians are led of the Spirit.

 

[NTNT58]

By condemning talking at people, I was holding myself accountable to a certain standard in my interaction with you on this question.

First it would appear that the ancient Near East was a melting pot of languages and it would seem likely that many people would have a grasp of a few languages, with Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew all being used for various reasons by various groups.

There are two specifically Catholic assertions that I would like to challenge. First the automatic conference of divine approval and authority on those who occupy the seat of Peter, second of the dual keys claimed by the RCC. These claims seem on historical and logical inspection to be fallacious.

Do you genuinely hold to either or both of these RCC positions?

I don't hold to any of their positions, but unless you can disprove that Jesus gave Peter the keys that nobody else was given, or that his authority wasn't passed to his successors, the RCC still holds the same authority today as the Pharisees did in the past. Jesus still told everyone to obey the Pharisees and do everything they said (in the context of religious authority).

 

[NTNT58]

Regardless of whether you believe Peter was given a special authority or not, God is under no obligation to continue through an apostate line. He simply removes the candlestick and Spirit and continues somewhere else. People follow titles. Christians are led of the Spirit.

If Jesus gave special keys to Peter, and Mathew 16:19 parallels Isiah 22, then the keys are passed down to Peter's successors. They are the ones chosen by God as one true church and all the other divisions are the apostates. During the time Jesus walked the earth, Christians were led by Jesus himself, and he still told everyone to obey the Pharisees.

 

[Cameron143]

If Jesus gave special keys to Peter, and Mathew 16:19 parallels Isiah 22, then the keys are passed down to Peter's successors. They are the ones chosen by God as one true church and all the other divisions are the apostates. During the time Jesus walked the earth, Christians were led by Jesus himself, and he still told everyone to obey the Pharisees.

Read the messages to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus dumps apostate churches. They may continue as earthly churches, but they have no Spirit...a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

 

[FRB72]

I don't hold to any of their positions, but unless you can disprove that Jesus gave Peter the keys that nobody else was given, or that his authority wasn't passed to his successors, the RCC still holds the same authority today as the Pharisees did in the past. Jesus still told everyone to obey the Pharisees and do everything they said (in the context of religious authority).

Put another way, do you agree and uphold or reject the RCC claims regarding Peter’s authority and succession and the Catholic understanding of the Two Keys?

 

[hornetguy]

But also, even if Peter is not the rock on which the church is built, it still doesn't prove he wasn't given the special keys that no other disciple was given.

Peter is absolutely NOT the rock upon which the church is built.... that rock is Jesus... the cornerstone... the foundation.... Many references to this....
These magical "keys" you speak of are simply stating that Peter will be the one to "open the door" at Pentecost... the keys to the kingdom of God, built on the rock of Ages...

you are trying your hardest to make something physical out of this.... Peter was chosen to usher in the kingdom, so he figuratively had the keys to the kingdom...

good grief...

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The original Aramaic that the disciples spoke only had one word for rock. Upon translation to Greek, the translators may have used the masculine form for Peter, but the original language doesn't differentiate. It's a good argument against the Papists to say that disciples did miracles and none of the Catholics today have any more claim to miracles than other denominations. All 12 disciples had the power to bind and loose, but only Peter had the keys. That has always been the main argument.

to the Hebrew People, there's Hebrew and Aramaic, which the Aramaic, is [[[LITERALLY]]] ""Short-Handed Hebrew.""

the fact that you do not understand this, and then try to APPLY the Muslim twang side of Aramaic to this, is more than BAFFLING, it's a shout that screams you don't know what you're saying here.