Israel Declares War

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
Literally no proof of this. BN has never put his people in harms way before. You'd have to be like Hitler to act in that manner.
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Was there a stand-down order issued? Reports from foreign intelligence suggest there was. If not, incredible levels of failure and incompetence that many who served in the Israeli military can't believe.

As to your last point - "You'd have to be like Hitler to act in that manner." I agree. Where we disagree is that I believe Netanyahu (and the others) did it.
 
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Smoke said:
I don't know what type of revisionist book you got your information from, but it's been estimated from 120,000-230,000 innocent Japanese civilians died from the nuclear attacks. It's in cold blood because we weren't discriminate in attacking the military forces/infrastructure... we used a nuclear bomb that would end lives over a wider area instead of more discriminate precision bombing.

Your insistence that a second atomic bomb "had" to be used is really a matter of opinion. An opinion that is slowly shifting as you know from our other discussion. Nevertheless, finding a "need" to kill civilians in cold blood sets an insanely dangerous precedent for future conflicts.

You also ignored the question and did verbal gymnastics. No one truly believes it "depends on the circumstances" to label the atomic bomb as an indiscriminate bomb. The bomb either discriminately or indiscriminately takes lives... Do you know the definition of "discriminate" and "indiscriminate"? If so, then you would know the presumed necessity to use the bomb to "saves lives and end the war" would not have ANY relevance to the bomb being either discriminate or indiscriminate. The need for a bomb doesn't make a bomb discriminate or indiscriminate in other words. Just as the color someone paints a bomb has no relevance to it being an ideal bomb to discriminately or indiscriminately kill armed forces. "Color" and "need" are irrelevant external factors that do not change the label to "discriminate" or "indiscriminate".
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And if we had not decided to side with mass murder stalin to fighr mass murder hitler, we could have focused our efforts on people who actually attacked us. Then we could have gone with out the horrific murder of possibly millions of civilians.
 
Moses_Young said:
Is it realistic or reasonable to expect around 1 million civilians to evacuate for the sake of a handful of terrorists or combatants? Or to expect so many people to evacuate within a day? Or to expect so many people to evacuate when the last time they did, their homes and property were stolen by the same people calling for them to evacuate? Or to expect so many people to evacuate when they are more likely to be killed evacuating (either by those calling them to evacuate, or those calling on them to stay), than if they stayed put? Empathy is putting yourself in the shoes of others. You might try it for the Palestinians. The request or warning to evacuate is not a reasonable one.
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I really don't mean this to sound nasty, but you seem very naive and young in your thinking. Sometimes that's an asset. But this is war. So can you tell me what you feel would be reasonable as a response to the butchery we know has happened. I'm going to put you in BN shoes. How do you deal with the barbarism that has just happened to your people.



ps In the 10 reasons I gave that Israel is not an apartheid state it said that Arabs ( Palestinians) would rather live under Israeli rule than their own people. So let's stop with the poor Arabs propaganda. They are afforded every right and Israeli is and yet they still won't let them have 1% as a homeland. There is no way to justify that.
 
Looking on news forums, there are so many opinions, so many hard hearts.

I pray for restraint and mercy from the men who hold power, towards ordinary innocent families on both sides whose lives are in terrible danger, homes gone.

I pray God steps in before there is a massive humanitarian disaster. What was done last week was appalling, but where can this all end?
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
I really don't mean this to sound nasty, but you seem very naive and young in your thinking. Sometimes that's an asset. But this is war. So can you tell me what you feel would be reasonable as a response to the butchery we know has happened. I'm going to put you in BN shoes. How do you deal with the barbarism that has just happened to your people.
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A rebuke is helpful if one needs to change. I don't think it does, though, as God's word gives us guidance. :-)

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path

God tells us how to deal with murder.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Those who committed crimes need to be put on trial, and if found guilty of capital offenses, put to death. If this is a war situation, God gives us this:

Ezekiel 33:6“But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.”

All we need to do is start at who was responsible for keeping watch but did not and allowed the attacks/murders to happen, and put them on trial, with death as the penalty for permitting murder (i.e. the blood of the watchman is required for any who die on his watch, where he fails to warn). I am pretty sure the trials would quickly lead upward to Netanyahu giving stand-down orders to his military and intelligence. Multiple overseas intelligence agencies attempted to warn Israel of the attack in the hours, days and weeks leading up to it. This would be relatively easy to follow-up on.

At Netanyahu's level, I am sure the money trail and/or confessions would lead to the puppetmasters behind him who seek to profit from creating a war. The issue isn't really how to resolve this situation or conflict. The issue is evil men seek to profit from the blood and deaths of others, but are not being held accountable, so they constrain the "solutions" enacted so as to perpetuate the violence (and their profits).
 
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Moses_Young said:
A rebuke is helpful if one needs to change. I don't think it does, though, as God's word gives us guidance. :)

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path

God tells us how to deal with murder.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Those who committed crimes need to be put on trial, and if found guilty of capital offenses, put to death. If this is a war situation, God gives us this:

Ezekiel 33:6“But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.”

All we need to do is start at who was responsible for keeping watch but did not and allowed the attacks/murders to happen, and put them on trial, with death as the penalty for permitting murder (i.e. the blood of the watchman is required for any who die on his watch, where he fails to warn). I am pretty sure the trials would quickly lead upward to Netanyahu giving stand-down orders to his military and intelligence. Multiple overseas intelligence agencies attempted to warn Israel of the attack in the hours, days and weeks leading up to it. This would be relatively easy to follow-up on.

At Netanyahu's level, I am sure the money trail and/or confessions would lead to the puppetmasters behind him who seek to profit from creating a war. The issue isn't really how to resolve this situation or conflict. The issue is evil men seek to profit from the blood and deaths of others, but are not being held accountable, so they constrain the "solutions" enacted so as to perpetuate the violence (and their profits).
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Plus the Israeli treatment of those in Gaza does not bode well for any peaceable solutions. Not that i blame any one side more than the other. They are a bunch of hard headed would totalitarians.
 
Moses_Young said:
A rebuke is helpful if one needs to change. I don't think it does, though, as God's word gives us guidance. :)

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path

God tells us how to deal with murder.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Those who committed crimes need to be put on trial, and if found guilty of capital offenses, put to death. If this is a war situation, God gives us this:

Ezekiel 33:6“But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.”

All we need to do is start at who was responsible for keeping watch but did not and allowed the attacks/murders to happen, and put them on trial, with death as the penalty for permitting murder (i.e. the blood of the watchman is required for any who die on his watch, where he fails to warn). I am pretty sure the trials would quickly lead upward to Netanyahu giving stand-down orders to his military and intelligence. Multiple overseas intelligence agencies attempted to warn Israel of the attack in the hours, days and weeks leading up to it. This would be relatively easy to follow-up on.

At Netanyahu's level, I am sure the money trail and/or confessions would lead to the puppetmasters behind him who seek to profit from creating a war. The issue isn't really how to resolve this situation or conflict. The issue is evil men seek to profit from the blood and deaths of others, but are not being held accountable, so they constrain the "solutions" enacted so as to perpetuate the violence (and their profits).
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So do you think they are wrong in seeking Hamas and destroying them as they have promised to do?
 
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Locoponydirtman said:
Plus the Israeli treatment of those in Gaza does not bode well for any peaceable solutions. Not that i blame any one side more than the other. They are a bunch of hard headed would totalitarians.
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I think the Arabs are treated very well considering they have been offered land at least 4xs and rejected it every time.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Someone once said, facts are stubborn things. Israel has never had the land fully that God promised them.

View attachment 256654
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This map is silly, certainly not based on the OT.

You have been lied to.

The foundation of the state of Israel in recent years has been a part of the predicted regathering of scattered Israel back to their ancient land...The present partial possession of the land is a token. The complete possession awaits the coming of Israel's Redeemer" (The Millennial Kingdom: A Basic Text in Premillennial Theology, John F. Walvoord, p 185, 1983 AD)

False: the land promise was fulfilled in 1406 BC.

The New Testament clearly shows no interest in the further question of the land itself. :unsure:

Jesus never mentioned it, He knew it had been fulfilled.

For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith (Rom. 4:13).

The message of salvation was preached by Paul and he said it was the hope of Israel, not some future land promise as Mosaic Jews.

“For this reason, therefore, I requested to see you and to speak with you, for I am wearing this chain for the sake of the hope of Israel.” (Acts 28:20)
 
HeIsHere said:
This map is silly, certainly not based on the OT.
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“To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates” (NASB). Then, in Genesis 17:8, “The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.” God later repeats the promise to Abraham’s son Isaac (Genesis 26:3–4) and Isaac’s son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), whose name God later changed to Israel.

In the Abrahamic Covenant, then, God laid out the extent of the land that would belong to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—a territory including all of Canaan and stretching from Egypt to modern-day Iraq. Several centuries later, when it came time for the Israelites actually take possession of the Promised Land, God again spoke of a vast area “from the Negev wilderness in the south to the Lebanon mountains in the north, from the Euphrates River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west, including all the land of the Hittites” (Joshua 1:4, NLT).

“Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it” (Deuteronomy 30:4–5). This promise is part of what is today sometimes called the Land Covenant.

According to Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4, the land God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (south to north) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (west to east). On today’s map, the land God has stated belongs to Israel includes everything modern-day Israel possesses, plus all of the territory occupied by the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Thus, Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land God has promised.


So the map isn't wrong. Read the Word for yourself. You'll find what I said to be true.
 
shittim said:
It's coming, maybe VERY soon.....:)(y)
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If you go backwards more than 2000 years.

"
ThereRoseaLamb said:
“To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates” (NASB). Then, in Genesis 17:8, “The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.” God later repeats the promise to Abraham’s son Isaac (Genesis 26:3–4) and Isaac’s son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), whose name God later changed to Israel.

In the Abrahamic Covenant, then, God laid out the extent of the land that would belong to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—a territory including all of Canaan and stretching from Egypt to modern-day Iraq. Several centuries later, when it came time for the Israelites actually take possession of the Promised Land, God again spoke of a vast area “from the Negev wilderness in the south to the Lebanon mountains in the north, from the Euphrates River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west, including all the land of the Hittites” (Joshua 1:4, NLT).

“Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it” (Deuteronomy 30:4–5). This promise is part of what is today sometimes called the Land Covenant.

According to Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4, the land God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (south to north) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (west to east). On today’s map, the land God has stated belongs to Israel includes everything modern-day Israel possesses, plus all of the territory occupied by the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Thus, Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land God has promised.


So the map isn't wrong. Read the Word for yourself. You'll find what I said to be true.
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Amazing you think God is in the real estate business still when He sent His Son to reconcile humanity back to Himself.

Jesus never mentions this unfulfilled promise that alone should make you reflect on your position.

As well the OT geography and labels are the point of reference alone not modern maps.
 
HeIsHere said:
Jesus never mentions this unfulfilled promise that alone should make you reflect on your position.

As well the OT geography and labels are the point of reference alone not modern maps.
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Jesus doesn't have to say it, God made an unconditional promise that is everlasting. Do you think Jesus would go against the father? The maps are drawn up based on what the Bible says, they can't be wrong if they are following what the Bible says.
 
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