Andy Stanley's Apostasy
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and had anyone of them CHOSE to reject God, He would not force them to Serve Him.
he sought out People already Serving Him. Noah, is Abraham's Great Grandfather. just like God took Enoch, Spared Noah, then made Abraham father of Nations, we SEE, the Generational Promise God made. and even in that, Abraham's own father, Terah, still worshiped false gods.
Abraham was a heathen. Adam and Eve had just fallen. No mention of Noah preaching before God came.
And when God comes, He always brings an offer you can't refuse.
you need to research Abraham. He lived with his Great Great Great Grandfather and Great Great Grandfather [Noah and Shem] and families until he was a teen.
us Jews, know this, and it is Documented.
so, Abraham, knew the Truth before God approached him.
Abraham was taught about God growing up by Noah and Shem.
so, even though he was a heathen, he knew about God, the Nephilim, the Flood, his own great great great great great great great Grandfather ENOCH.
essentially, Abraham, is the Poster Child, for being a Prodigal Son to Return back to the Fold.
I prefer to limit myself to the limits scripture employs. The rest is speculation. And the story of Abraham isn't like that of the prodigal son. God told him to leave. The prodigal left of his own accord. The story of Abraham is a story of salvation through faith and how God uses His direct teaching and the circumstances of life to teach His people how to walk by faith.
no, Abraham left the teachings of his great/great/great Grandfather, which is how Abraham knew God existed.
he then became a heathen.
and he came back to the knowledge he once knew after interacting with God.
very much like a Prodigal.
and from then on, he knew about what we now know.
That's your account. It's not the biblical account. Biblically, faith begins when God showed up.
Amen. God draws us with loving kindness and circumcises our hearts so we will choose Him...
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
it's the Jewish Lineage account just like the Bible is partially the Jewish Lineage account.
it's like the Bible mentions Pharaoh.
but in reality, there were hundreds of Pharaohs
[Bible] does not always use correct name of Pharaoh as the Egyptians knew him as.
but you are correct, what is in the Bible about the few Pharaoh's [or our discussion on Abraham] mentioned are FACT! just as the entire list we have in Egyptian Archive of Pharaoh's is FACT.
the Bible skims the surface of knowledge about Pharaoh, but archaeology, gives us the Complete Detailed List.
same with what the Jews knew about Abraham.
you have the LIMITED knowledge the Bible offers, i have the Full Knowledge of FACT through the Record Keeping the Jews kept.
I agree that historical sources can inform biblical understanding. But the Bible itself is sufficient to produce faith...in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. You have no way of knowing, regardless of additional records, and even if all is as you say, whether earlier teaching actually produced an inward faith or a mere adherence to religion.
honestly, the benefit of knowing that Noah, great great great great Grandson of Enoch, is the great great great Grandfather of Abraham, is just a way to connect the dots and nothing more.
and the Bible is telling the Complete Truth about Abraham, it's just letting us READERS connect the dots.
but, you cannot connect the dots until you have the right Information.
the Bible, does not offer that information.
so, the Bible, would not be the Source to discover this.
anyway, it's not a Salvation Issue, it's just about who Abraham was Family to.
Not always. They sometimes say that rewards will be lost but not salvation. They wiggle and squiggle in all sorts of directions.
Perhaps this passage is addressing the issue:
1 Corinthains 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
The last verse- the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. He has lost something evidently but is still saved.
Perhaps this is also addressing motives- doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, for example serving just to be seen by man, on the other hand our Father who sees what is done in secret will reward what is done for him in secret.
God Bless You
Yes, I agree. This is what I was referring to. All faithful Christians will attend this "Bema Seat" judgment of our works. Apostates will not be there. They await the Great White Throne Judgement, which faithful Christians will not see.