Israel Declares War

[Ted01]

Can you be specific? What opinions do you mean?

I gave you a link in the post that you quoted earlier.

Your opinion about Jews being in the land before the Arabs - post #350... you told the person whom you quoted that they were incorrect and that the land belonged to the Jews first. That's only true if you view from OT promises (that had a condition) ... but it's not true from the historical record. The Jews left in and around 70 AD... other peoples inhabited the land which was vacated.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I don't want to derail this thread but appreciate that many see it the same as you do.
I'm not so convinced of that.

You don't believe that God said any of those verses???? It happened already whether you were convinced or not.

🍉

 

[Handyman62]

https://www.ae911truth.org/

I saw nothing in that video to substantiate any claims that it was brought down by demolition charges. I watched the twin towers come down live the day it happened and have seen many additional clips since then and none them show anything to lead me to believe what you and a few other people have chosen to believe.
What I saw happen to the twin towers aligns perfectly with what I knew beforehand about the design and construction of them and also what I know about steel from from my experience in cutting, welding and using heat to bend it.
I have also watched a lot of videos about using explosives to bring down buildings and how difficult it is to do it reliably. I have also spent many years in business repairing major appliances along with many years of repairing pretty much anything electrical, mechanical and construction work for myself and friends. All that has given me a lot of knowledge about many things and was able to learn and do those things because God gifted me with those abilities.
It's very plain to see that those who have fallen for this conspiracy has very little knowledge of just how these things work and also appear to lack the ability to see the difference between an actual conspiracy and a conspiracy theory.

 

[Ted01]

You don't believe that God said any those verses? Well, work it out with God.

🍉

C'mon, of course I believe that God said all those things... I just believe that God said other things on that topic.

 

[Smoke]

@Ted01 @ThereRoseaLamb

Correct me if I'm wrong, in relatively modern history (the last 500 years), Palestine/Israel has been populated predominantly by non-Jews. Going back much further than 500 years ago, it was once a land populated predominantly by the Jews. Would yall agree to this?

My history is a bit fuzzy, but I believe the Ottoman empire controlled Israel/Palestine until 1918'ish (after the battle of Megiddo). Then the British controlled it until 1947 when they gave it to the Jews. Prior to giving it to the Jews however, it was a dominant majority of non-Jews.

It's so relatively recent that many Palestinian people today have parents that owned land in what was called Palestine (Israel today). So you have to ask yourself, should the Palestinian people have the right to the homes their parents and grandparents owned when the land was under British rule?

The counter to this question is that the Jews owned it going back further into history. The issue with this stance is that the US took over land from the Native Americans... Should we give over our land back to the tribes and go back to Europe? I think the obvious answer is "No." What was done to the Native American people was terrible... It was wicked. We committed crimes against humanity... Too much time has passed to fix what we unfortunately. This is not the same with modern day Palestinians however. This is recent enough that some people are still living who were raised in a home that they were forced out of.

I'm sure many of you will think I'm a Palestinian supporter based on my understanding of the events. I enjoy discussing history and if I'm wrong with anything, I welcome people to set me straight.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

C'mon, of course I believe that God said all those things... I just believe that God said other things on that topic.

Like what?

🍉

 

[NightTwister]

How many innocent Japanese civilians did we murder then?

None.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

@Ted01 @ThereRoseaLamb

Correct me if I'm wrong, in relatively modern history (the last 500 years), Palestine/Israel has been populated predominantly by non-Jews. Going back much further than 500 years ago, it was once a land populated predominantly by the Jews. Would yall agree to this?

My history is a bit fuzzy, but I believe the Ottoman empire controlled Israel/Palestine until 1918'ish (after the battle of Megiddo). Then the British controlled it until 1947 when they gave it to the Jews. Prior to giving it to the Jews however, it was a dominant majority of non-Jews.

It's so relatively recent that many Palestinian people today have parents that owned land in what was called Palestine (Israel today). So you have to ask yourself, should the Palestinian people have the right to the homes their parents and grandparents owned when the land was under British rule?

The counter to this question is that the Jews owned it going back further into history. The issue with this stance is that the US took over land from the Native Americans... Should we give over our land back to the tribes and go back to Europe? I think the obvious answer is "No." What was done to the Native American people was terrible... It was wicked. We committed crimes against humanity... Too much time has passed to fix what we unfortunately. This is not the same with modern day Palestinians however. This is recent enough that some people are still living who were raised in a home that they were forced out of.

I'm sure many of you will think I'm a Palestinian supporter based on my understanding of the events. I enjoy discussing history and if I'm wrong with anything, I welcome people to set me straight.

I think it has more to do with what God decided. He wanted to move the Jews back to the land He had ousted them from and no amount of opposition is going to change that. I think the Palestinians should become Christians and trust Him to give them a land that they would be happy with (and won't cut into others). Because apart from God, they're not going to get anything.


🍉

 

[Ted01]

@Ted01 @ThereRoseaLamb

Correct me if I'm wrong, in relatively modern history (the last 500 years), Palestine/Israel has been populated predominantly by non-Jews. Going back much further than 500 years ago, it was once a land populated predominantly by the Jews. Would yall agree to this?

My history is a bit fuzzy, but I believe the Ottoman empire controlled Israel/Palestine until 1918'ish (after the battle of Megiddo). Then the British controlled it until 1947 when they gave it to the Jews. Prior to giving it to the Jews however, it was a dominant majority of non-Jews.

It's so relatively recent that many Palestinian people today have parents that owned land in what was called Palestine (Israel today). So you have to ask yourself, should the Palestinian people have the right to the homes their parents and grandparents owned when the land was under British rule?

The counter to this question is that the Jews owned it going back further into history. The issue with this stance is that the US took over land from the Native Americans... Should we give over our land back to the tribes and go back to Europe? I think the obvious answer is "No." What was done to the Native American people was terrible... It was wicked. We committed crimes against humanity... Too much time has passed to fix what we unfortunately. This is not the same with modern day Palestinians however. This is recent enough that some people are still living who were raised in a home that they were forced out of.

I'm sure many of you will think I'm a Palestinian supporter based on my understanding of the events. I enjoy discussing history and if I'm wrong with anything, I welcome people to set me straight.

Well, it seems that most of your hard history is good and accurate. I do have some minor issues with the 500-year mark that you've used with regard to demographics... but no biggie since it's not pertinent to the rest of your post.

I'm also not so keen on your using desperate incidents in history to compare/contrast issues. I think that it's often a mistake when different worldviews in different eras are overlooked in an analysis.

However, I do agree that it's a difficult thing to unscramble eggs... also that consideration of the fact that the recent history of Israel/Palestine might be considered as important. If it's not important to us, looking on, I think that should be understood that it's important to the Palestinians/Arabs of that region. It's a real big factor in their opinion.

 

[Smoke]

I think it has more to do with what God decided. He wanted to move the Jews back to the land He had ousted them from and no amount of opposition is going to change that. I think the Palestinians should become Christians and trust Him to give them a land that they would be happy with (and won't cut into others). Because apart from God, they're not going to get anything.
🍉

If we follow this reasoning (which I think is perfectly reasonable), it doesn't say to displace the non-Jewish people who already had homes and then isolate those former inhabitants to a little strip of land. I think it's possible for the Jews to return home (Israel) while also living with non-Jews. In fact, this EXACT thing was happening already prior to the British giving the keys over to the Jews. Displacing Palestinians who owned homes only feeds into Hamas' propaganda. This is how Satan works. He uses legitimate truths but spews poison to manipulate people to do his bidding.

Call me naive, but I think it was entirely possible for a Palestinian state and an Israeli state but neither side wanted to make any concessions. It's utterly sad.

 

[ZNP]

So Hamas didn't murder innocent civilians because they are at war with Israel? I mean... two things can be true. Hamas is at war with Israel, but it's also true they are murdering innocent Israeli civilians.

Dropping a nuclear bomb and saying you're sincerely attempting to only "kill" military forces and not the dense civilian population surrounding it is disingenous. Why do we have to lie to ourselves? There is no justification to "kill" civilians with such an indiscriminate nuclear weapon.

If you want to blow up a port, do so with a traditional bomb... but a nuclear weapon? It's a disingenuous distinction and you're intelligent enough to know that.

What is foolish is thinking that your words make any difference. In war the winners make the rules and write the history. You keep trying to define one act of aggression as a crime and another act as "OK".

I look at this differently. I will have to give account for the things I have done in this world, how will this act look when I appear before the Lord. I would not want to be on the airplane that dropped the bomb, but if I was on a Navy ship in the Pacific when the war ended I would have been thankful for the person who did drop it. On the other hand if I was a kid in the 50s hiding under my desk during a drill for nuclear war I would not have been thankful.

What you do has consequences and will affect many people.

 

[Cameron143]

I suppose I am going to order a Tsar Bomba (biggest/most powerful nuclear bomb ever created) next time I have a pest control problem. "Sorry if I blow up my entire state, I was discriminately trying to kill the cockroaches and crickets in my house."

Cockroaches can't be killed...they are zombies.

 

[ZNP]

I gave you a link in the post that you quoted earlier.

Your opinion about Jews being in the land before the Arabs - post #350... you told the person whom you quoted that they were incorrect and that the land belonged to the Jews first. That's only true if you view from OT promises (that had a condition) ... but it's not true from the historical record. The Jews left in and around 70 AD... other peoples inhabited the land which was vacated.

Arabs are descended from Ishmael, Abraham's son with Hagar. Palestinians are not Arabs, they are Philistines. They were in the land prior to the nation of Israel coming into the land from Egypt. However, that was more than 400 years after God made a covenant with Abraham to give the land to him and his seed (referring to Isaac). The reason God displaced the Philistines was because they offered up children sacrifices to Moloch and Baal (abortion and infanticide). God is a defender of the helpless.

 

[Smoke]

None.

So 0 Japanese civilians were killed in cold blood? The atomic bombings ONLY killed military personnel and spared civilians? Is that your understanding?

I guess we have different definitions of "murder".

Do you believe an atomic bomb is an ideal weapon to discriminately kill an enemy?

 

[Ted01]

Arabs are descended from Ishmael, Abraham's son with Hagar. Palestinians are not Arabs, they are Philistines. They were in the land prior to the nation of Israel coming into the land from Egypt. However, that was more than 400 years after God made a covenant with Abraham to give the land to him and his seed (referring to Isaac). The reason God displaced the Philistines was because they offered up children sacrifices to Moloch and Baal (abortion and infanticide). God is a defender of the helpless.

I guess that I understand your reasoning... somewhat. But I think that in mingling ancient history with, moderately, recent history people get confused.

That particular piece of real estate was legitimately renamed Palestine long ago. It makes no difference whether we like it or not.

 

[ZNP]

None.

What about the babies, you don't consider infants innocent?

 

[Smoke]

What is foolish is thinking that your words make any difference. In war the winners make the rules and write the history. You keep trying to define one act of aggression as a crime and another act as "OK".

I look at this differently. I will have to give account for the things I have done in this world, how will this act look when I appear before the Lord. I would not want to be on the airplane that dropped the bomb, but if I was on a Navy ship in the Pacific when the war ended I would have been thankful for the person who did drop it. On the other hand if I was a kid in the 50s hiding under my desk during a drill for nuclear war I would not have been thankful.

What you do has consequences and will affect many people.

It's not that I think MY words make a difference, it's that there is clearly deceit when people attempt to justify killing innocent Japanese civilians. We all agree that there is sometimes collateral damage... especially when using non-nuclear bombs. But people are doing verbal gymnastic to make it seem like an atomic bomb is a discriminate bomb ideal for selectively killing armed forces inside of a densely civilian populated area.

If we can agree there is a difference between discriminate killing and indiscriminate killing (murdering), then we can get somewhere. If we agree there is a difference, the next step is to ask if the atomic bomb is the ideal bomb TO discriminately kill armed forces. The problem is that it is so blatantly obvious you don't use a nuclear bomb if you're trying to discriminately kill armed forces. That's why no one is answering the question.

 

[ZNP]

Call me naive, but I think it was entirely possible for a Palestinian state and an Israeli state but neither side wanted to make any concessions. It's utterly sad.

That wasn't true, in 1948 the majority of Jews and Palestinians were happy to live side by side. However, the surrounding nations were against it for a number of reasons and so paid for the Palestinians to fight a war that seemed certain for them to win, but they lost. After that it seemed impossible for them to live side by side.

 

[ZNP]

I guess that I understand your reasoning... somewhat. But I think that in mingling ancient history with, moderately, recent history people get confused.

That particular piece of real estate was legitimately renamed Palestine long ago. It makes no difference whether we like it or not.

That is why most Americans cannot understand the Middle East, these rivalries date back to Abraham and if you don't understand that you can't understand what is going on.

 

[ZNP]

It's not that I think MY words make a difference, it's that there is clearly deceit when people attempt to justify killing innocent Japanese civilians. We all agree that there is sometimes collateral damage... especially when using non-nuclear bombs. But people are doing verbal gymnastic to make it seem like an atomic bomb is a discriminate bomb ideal for selectively killing armed forces inside of a densely civilian populated area.

If we can agree there is a difference between discriminate killing and indiscriminate killing (murdering), then we can get somewhere. If we agree there is a difference, the next step is to ask if the atomic bomb is the ideal bomb TO discriminately kill armed forces. The problem is that it is so blatantly obvious you don't use a nuclear bomb if you're trying to discriminately kill armed forces. That's why no one is answering the question.

I am not trying to justify anyone, the only way you can be justified is with the blood of Jesus.

I have no idea where you are trying to get to but you will definitely not get to justification by discriminately killing soldiers while not killing civilians.

1. The whole world lies in the evil one and that includes all these wars.

We are not here to build up the heap of collapse, we are pilgrims, just passing through, who are witnesses of Jesus Christ.

I have only known one man who came back from war justified. They made a movie about him, Hacksaw Ridge.