Works for Salvation: Forgiveness of Others

[07-07-07]

Jesus said that without the works of forgiveness of others, the Father will not forgive us — and of course we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven without the Father forgiving us of our sins.

Matthew 6
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Mark 11
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[26] But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

why is forgiving someone a WORKS, when, it is a Command by God to do so?

it should not be a ""WORKS,"" but an Obedience, to a Direct Order!

 

[mailmandan]

Contimued unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us. (Ephesians 4:32) It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others. Forgiveness is about a heart condition and not a work for salvation.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

IF, you [[DO NOT]] forgive others
Your FATHER in Heaven, [[WILL NOT]] forgive you


it's a Command that includes a Warning!

no ""work"" involved.

 

[oyster67]

Jesus said that without the works of forgiveness of others, the Father will not forgive us — and of course we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven without the Father forgiving us of our sins.

Matthew 6
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Mark 11
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[26] But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

If you will look at your verses, you will see that they do not couch these things as "works". These are things are manifestations of our love and faithfulness to Christ. Good works often result from these things, but these things themselves are what the Bible refers to as "living by faith". Normally it wouldn't matter what label you put on them, but of late, "works" has become a dirty word because it can be the result of impure motives. Some of the nasties around here will accuse you of teaching a "salvation by works" false doctrine.

Ephesians 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I know this sounds picky, but posting in this forum is like stepping through a minefield. Faith comes first, then good works flow forth as a result.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

God, tells me all the time, see that Person, give them food.
now, it looks like it is me giving that Person food, but in reality, it is GOD feeding that Person through me.
so, even in that, it is GOD doing the WORKS and i follow the Command, which is not a ""WORK.""

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus said that without the works of forgiveness of others, the Father will not forgive us — and of course we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven without the Father forgiving us of our sins.

Matthew 6
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Mark 11
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[26] But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Amen but this isn’t a work it’s faith

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Many Christian’s will not hear what he said like in this post you’ll find many reasons why what Jesus plainly stated there for believers isn’t true for believers .

But it’s always going to say the same thing in Gods word even at judgement day. It’s not o my one place he taught this but it’s consistent in the gospel and epistles

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is a teaching for Gods children the church because all have sinned all are in this boat

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are all under a sentance of death for the very first sin we ever commit. This is the reason Jesus has to die for a persons sins in order to save them everyone is sentenced to death because mankind has proven themselves sinners.

If God didn’t give the perfect law of liberty this law of mercy that triumphs over jidgement nonone could be saved but because of Gods mercy the judge has spoken

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That mercy is going to save us come judgement day

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we judge people who do wrong to us without mercy we shouldn’t expect to be treated with mercy if we forgive we can expect to be forgiven if we don’t condemn everyone else for thier “ sins “ we are t going to be condemned for our flaws and imperfections we are setting our own judgement by how we treat others regarding thier own imperfections

your post here is absolutely correct don’t let anyone take you away from that word your hearing because it’s this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s wonderful to see someone looking in the right place the everlasting gospel

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[oyster67]

Amen but this isn’t a work it’s faith

Yes.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus said that without the works of forgiveness of others, the Father will not forgive us — and of course we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven without the Father forgiving us of our sins.

Matthew 6
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Mark 11
[25] And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
[26] But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

There is a huge difference between the position that our salvation requires us to choose to do works (which is a position that many verses support) and the position that our salvation requires us have first done works in order to earn it as a wage (which is a position that many verses deny). For example, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and in Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so it is clear that our salvation requires us to choose to be doers of the law, but not in order to earn it as a wage (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[oyster67]

There is a huge difference between the position that our salvation requires us to choose to do works (which is a position that many verses support) and the position that our salvation requires us have first done works in order to earn it as a wage (which is a position that many verses deny). For example, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and in Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so it is clear that our salvation requires us to choose to be doers of the law, but not in order to earn it as a wage (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9).

Yes, we come to the cross just as we are. He empowers us and brings forth good works through us as we yield to Him. A big question here at CC is whether or not we lose our salvation if we cease to yield to Him. It becomes somewhat heated at times.

Welcome to CC, dear brother!

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, we come to the cross just as we are. He empowers us and brings forth good works through us as we yield to Him. A big question here at CC is whether or not we lose our salvation if we cease to yield to Him. It becomes somewhat heated at times.

Welcome to CC, dear brother!

I think that understanding what the content of God's gift of salvation is helps to determine whether it is something that we can lose.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to become saved as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God gracious teaching to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works. Moreover, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Clearly, if someone is being trained to do those works and then chooses to no longer act in accordance with that training, then they are no longer being saved from not doing those works, so our salvation requires us to choose to do those works, but not in order to earn it as wage. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and being a doer of God's law through faith is about God giving the gift of salvation to us, not about us earning our salvation from God as a wage.

Thank you.

 

[Dino246]

Contimued unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us. (Ephesians 4:32) It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others. Forgiveness is about a heart condition and not a work for salvation.

It is possible for someone to believe in Jesus (ie. "be a Christian") and simply not understand the concept of forgiveness (yet). Very few (if any) of us come to faith and at the same time come to full understanding of all aspects of the faith.

In time, most of us read the parable of the unmerciful servant (Matthew 18) and are cut to the heart because we see ourselves in the parable.

There are also those who read that parable and don't see themselves in it. They somehow remain unforgiving. I can only guess their sin and brokenness blinds them.

 

[07-07-07]

What are works? Works are a person’s actions or deeds. - Got Questions

Forgiveness is often referred to as an "act". For example, and "act of forgiveness". Therefore, forgiveness is a work. You can't get away from it. Without works, your faith is null and void. Jesus will not receive you unless you "do" what He commands.

 

[mailmandan]

What are works? Works are a person’s actions or deeds. - Got Questions

Forgiveness is often referred to as an "act". For example, and "act of forgiveness". Therefore, forgiveness is a work. You can't get away from it. Without works, your faith is null and void. Jesus will not receive you unless you "do" what He commands.

Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) or by grace through faith AND WORKS?

 

[Soyeong]

Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) or by grace through faith AND WORKS?

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we are saved as the result of our works, he did not deny that doing good works is intrinsically part of our salvation from not doing good works. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, not the way to add our works on top of grace through faith.

 

[NightTwister]

What are works? Works are a person’s actions or deeds. - Got Questions

Forgiveness is often referred to as an "act". For example, and "act of forgiveness". Therefore, forgiveness is a work. You can't get away from it. Without works, your faith is null and void. Jesus will not receive you unless you "do" what He commands.

Keep working. You're almost there!

 

[mailmandan]

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we are saved as the result of our works, he did not deny that doing good works is intrinsically part of our salvation from not doing good works. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, not the way to add our works on top of grace through faith.

Sounds like sugar coated double talk to me. We are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS, then afterwards, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Nothing there about good works being intrinsically part of our salvation. We are not saved by faith and works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit.

 

[07-07-07]

Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) or by grace through faith AND WORKS?

I believe we are saved by grace, the kind of grace that leads a believer into doing God's works as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

James 2
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[JesusSeeker]

Unforgiveness is sin. Forgiveness is part of repentance. We are known by our love, works should be a result of our love and obedience. The pharisees did works out of pride so they could boast to the ppl what they had done. Their actions looked good on the outside, but their hearts were filthy. Don't just clean the outside but the inside as well. What is the motive of your works?

 

[mailmandan]

I believe we are saved by grace, the kind of grace that leads a believer into doing God's works as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

In other words you believe we are saved by grace + works.

James 2

[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In regard to "faith without works is dead," James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith, and the works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. It takes a living faith to produce works (Ephesians 2:5-10) just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit.

So, James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works (bare profession of faith) demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)