Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

[posthuman]

I haven't missed your point at all, but you don't even understand what you're talking about... you're talking about manipulating translation of the text to change number of words... you really don't get to do that unless you are writing an original text. If you try to do that then your translation will obviously look fake and manipulated.

What difference do other languages make and why would it carry over to other languages anyway, that would defeat the whole purpose of God marking the most widespread Bible version as the most accurate. It is you who is missing the point here.

the Geneva Bible was more widespread for quite a while.. and a Spanish or possibly Chinese version is arguably more prevalent worldwide now. we English-speaking people, particularly Americans, are culturally vain, forgetting that we are a pagan people.

but every translation is a translation and that process of translation necessarily loses information - it doesn't add information. so in principle i agree with those saying that any truly God breathed numerological pattern in scripture is in the original language, not in translation. best we could see in any translation is an echo

 

[NTNT58]

Before landing here I spent a good deal of time speaking with atheists and other non-believers.
I cannot say they were logical. They thought they were, certainly thought they were more logical
and rational than Christians, but I did not find that to be the case at all. E.g., they would say we were
brainwashed and only believed because we were told to, but then wanted to tell us what to believe instead.

Keep in mind there is a difference between atheist and agnostic. Atheist is someone who has FAITH that there is no God, and they need that faith because they can't prove that there is no God. Agnostic is someone who actually uses logic to say - there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not and if there is a God, he'll save me, if not, what's the point? Their logic is incomplete and you need to tell them that this temporary life is not worth the risk of spending eternity in hell. An atheist is usually someone who just secretly hates God or the message of the Bible for whatever reason (violence, God sending people to eternal punishment for temporary sins, etc), to them you need to explain that God doesn't just send people to hell for not believing - it's a correlation of being a non believer and a child of Satan. And you could also add the fact that theistic Satanists are believers in God and they are still going to hell.

 

[NTNT58]

the Geneva Bible was more widespread for quite a while.. and a Spanish or possibly Chinese version is arguably more prevalent worldwide now. we English-speaking people, particularly Americans, are culturally vain, forgetting that we are a pagan people.

but every translation is a translation and that process of translation necessarily loses information - it doesn't add information. so in principle i agree with those saying that any truly God breathed numerological pattern in scripture is in the original language, not in translation. best we could see in any translation is an echo

You're assuming that God would only choose original to breathe in patterns. What's the reason for that assumption? As far as I'm aware King James Bible is still the most sold book of all time.

 

[hornetguy]

When original languages have it it's not very significant because it could be man-made. Only when a translation shows up in the future through a language not existing at the time does this become proof of divine intervention.

You have that exactly backwards.
The older the "original" manuscripts are, the LESS likely they are to have been tampered with....
Translating the original words into another language is where there can be mistakes made... fortunately, MOST recent translations have been guided by the Holy Spirit.... it's very easy to spot the ones that were made to fit an agenda.... most true scholars of the Bible agree as to which are "good" translations, and which are cult-driven.

 

[Magenta]

Keep in mind there is a difference between atheist and agnostic. Atheist is someone who has FAITH that there is no God, and they need that faith because they can't prove that there is no God. Agnostic is someone who actually uses logic to say - there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not and if there is a God, he'll save me, if not, what's the point? Their logic is incomplete and you need to tell them that this temporary life is not worth the risk of spending eternity in hell. An atheist is usually someone who just secretly hates God or the message of the Bible for whatever reason (violence, God sending people to eternal punishment for temporary sins, etc), to them you need to explain that God doesn't just send people to hell for not believing - it's a correlation of being a non believer and a child of Satan. And you could also add the fact that theistic Satanists are believers in God and they are still going to hell.

An agnostic believes nobody can know God, or whether or not He exists, but rather than looking for answers and/or depending on those who claim to know God, they look to others of their ilk to bolster them in their beliefs instead. How logical is that? To underscore their dependence on their belief that nobody can know, they would rather believe we believe in fairy tales and have no evidence whatsoever for our beliefs... neither of which is true. Scripture says everyone knows there is a God, for He has made Himself manifest through His creation, but they suppress that knowledge out of pride. That is why they are said to have no excuse.

Psalm 19:1

 

[NTNT58]

You have that exactly backwards.
The older the "original" manuscripts are, the LESS likely they are to have been tampered with....
Translating the original words into another language is where there can be mistakes made... fortunately, MOST recent translations have been guided by the Holy Spirit.... it's very easy to spot the ones that were made to fit an agenda.... most true scholars of the Bible agree as to which are "good" translations, and which are cult-driven.

We're not talking about human tempering, we are talking about God himself encoding messages into the Kings James Bible to verify it as the most accurate translation. He is the one who allowed it to be the most popular book ever sold and the most popular Bible version. I agree about older manuscripts being more reliable from human tempering, but you'd have to look over those hundreds of intertwined formulas and make one that goes against them or against the message of the Bible to disprove those formulas.

 

[Mem]

When Romney was running for president against the incumbent, there were equal-distance sequencing messages that "prophesied' him defeating Obama.

 

[hornetguy]

Oh well you must have been talking to people in person.

Are you suggesting that we only try to evangelize online? Talking to people is risky?

Would it be fair to say that the ease of reading is the Trojan Horse that has brought some distorted and diluted text variants into many modern translations?

Absolutely not.
There are more modern translations that are actually more accurate than the KJV. It is a good, accurate translation, but a lot of what it says is lost in the archaic words it uses.

 

[NTNT58]

Are you suggesting that we only try to evangelize online? Talking to people is risky?


Absolutely not.
There are more modern translations that are actually more accurate than the KJV. It is a good, accurate translation, but a lot of what it says is lost in the archaic words it uses.

What are you talking about? I never suggested that talking to people is risky. I said the reason why she's having so much success with preaching the Gospel is because in person is much easier when it comes to arguments because people are less likely to speak their full mind at you.

 

[NTNT58]

Are you suggesting that we only try to evangelize online? Talking to people is risky?


Absolutely not.
There are more modern translations that are actually more accurate than the KJV. It is a good, accurate translation, but a lot of what it says is lost in the archaic words it uses.

Name one translation more accurate than KJV and explain your reason why.

 

[Dino246]

I haven't missed your point at all, but you don't even understand what you're talking about./QUOTE]
And right there, I stopped reading. I'm so tired of arrogant jackdonkeys on this site....

 

[posthuman]

You're assuming that God would only choose original to breathe in patterns. What's the reason for that assumption? As far as I'm aware King James Bible is still the most sold book of all time.

my reason is that He chose the languages He chose to give scripture for perfect reasons, because He is perfect - and He preserved those languages for the same reasons, else we would have no such things as translations at all.

 

[posthuman]

.. encoding messages into the Kings James Bible to verify it as the most accurate translation.

ah.

But is the point of the Bible to glorify a translation or is it to testify of Christ?

Here is perhaps the crux of the thread

 

[ewq1938]

Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

Gen_19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Deu_21:7 And they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it.

Jos_1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.

Mat_22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

 

[ewq1938]

but every translation is a translation and that process of translation necessarily loses information - it doesn't add information.

Some do add information. Some lose no information, when the translation is perfect.

 

[ewq1938]

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and thou tellest me not to answer that question. Selah.

 

[NTNT58]

my reason is that He chose the languages He chose to give scripture for perfect reasons, because He is perfect - and He preserved those languages for the same reasons, else we would have no such things as translations at all.

The trouble is there are over 400,000 original manuscripts, many of them contradict each other. Most agree on the basics, but some don't. How do you know which ones are the closest to God's truth?

The originals Hebrew manuscripts have their own divine patters, but the translations have different ones. It's one thing to encode patterns into a text you are creating and manipulating, but only God can foresee the future language and patters in that translation that could not have been created by men. Those patterns could be dismissed as "well God didn't really mean to say it's the most accurate version of the bible, there is another meaning to it". But I don't see how you can dismiss those patterns as coincidence or man-made conspiracy.

 

[NTNT58]

ah.

But is the point of the Bible to glorify a translation or is it to testify of Christ?

Here is perhaps the crux of the thread

Offcoarse it's to testify of Christ, but you've got bible translations that use Alexandrian manuscripts that DOWNPLAY the role of Christ. I find it funny how the same people who criticize me for heading towards "gnosticism" while they are the ones using bible translations based on GNOSTIC Alexandrian manuscripts.

 

[NTNT58]

Gen_19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Deu_21:7 And they shall answer and say, Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it.

Jos_1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.

Mat_22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

Sorry, that was probably my fault, when I said secret, I didn't mean gnostic or based on numerology. Those 2 use supernatural or magic to look for secrets, while I'm trying to use the bible itself.

 

[NTNT58]

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and thou tellest me not to answer that question. Selah.

You're adding to the bible, that's a big no no. That's not the psalm says.