Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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The apostle John Debunks eternal insecurity NOSAS
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 4:
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 5:
4 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. . 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
John 10: 28
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
1 John 5: 11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 John 5: 13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 4:
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 5:
4 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. . 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
John 10: 28
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
1 John 5: 11
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 John 5: 13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
if you could lose salvation. no you could not get it back.
Heb 6: , 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Renouncing Christ as described in the Hebrew letter is one thing, which goes on to say it's impossible to renew again unto repentance, Hebrews 6:4-6 below. But simply turning again to leading a life of sin is another matter. Like the wayward or prodigal son, repentance is required to be restored.
"4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
it impossible to renew them
No amount of repenting will get them re born again.
That is a fact.
IF they lose it, they can never get it back.
But verse 6:9 tells us that for all who have/will become saved, the "persuaded better things of you" and "things that accompany salvation" makes impossible the potential of their falling away. It was made impossible not because of things they might or might not do, but from, of, and by, the "things that accompany salvation" alone - things that cannot be affected by their actions, and by that, in Paul-speak, he confirms OSAS. The "though we speak thus", informs that verses 6:4 - 6:8, in spite of what was said in them, they are not to be taken literally, but are to function as hypothetical for contrast and depth for the purpose of illustrating the point of verse 6:9: that one's salvation cannot be altered. This is confirmed in an oblique way in verse 6:6: given as Christ cannot be re-crucified (nor would He need be), that His offering, for those covered by it, cannot be altered and stands sure for them for all eternity.
[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Amen! Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation.
I agree with this scripture 100% and do not think it in any way contradicts anything I've said at all. Not sure if you were "correcting" me, but this does not say, at all, that the person was saved unless your presupposition makes it mean that. If you want it to mean that then I understand why, that was my understanding for a while too, but being a partaker in the Holy Spirit doesn't seem to mean the same thing as being reconciled to Him in truth as we are when we're born again. It's very carefully worded and again I see the taste of Gods heavenly gifts and Holy Spirit a very insufficient way to describe being born again in power and truth, sealed in His Spirit. That's my opinion on this scripture.
On the contrary to your point. Who was the Hebrew letter addressed to? It was addressed to newly converted Hebrew Christians, so yes, the passages you referenced that I originally cited, Hebrews 6:4-6, WAS pertaining to saved individuals.
Why the warning then if it, falling away, were not possible? They expected better things, or hoped for better things of them, but once again, no guarantee and hence the warning. And "you" is speaking to them as the whole, but the whole consists of many individuals who will do what they individually will do.
Not everyone in this large group of "professing" (Hebrew) Christians were genuine Christians, as we see in Hebrews 3:8-14; 4:1-3; 6:9; 10:39 and 12:15. Hence, the warning.
It doesn't say they fell away from salvation. Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God yet have simply tasted and stopped there.
People who have experienced these things may be genuine Christians, yet this alone is not enough to give conclusive evidence that (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet those who draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth do not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)
These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responding to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
In regard to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
Those who were being addressed by Paul were saved. This can be determined by v 6:9 in which only the saved are addressed. Every one of the “you” of 6:9 therefore must also be saved: if the group is saved then all of its members have to be too, and by that salvation, the concerns of 6:4 – 6:8, not applicable to them. Paul did not say that he expected better things of them but that he had been persuaded they already had those better things, which things, had accompanied their salvation and had eliminated falling away as a possibility.
Generally, Paul was teaching them of the inevitability and permanence of salvation, so verses 6:4 – 6:8, were intended only as additional informational to provide them with depth and deeper knowledge. They describe those who gain an intellectual awareness of Christ's salvation and His doctrines, yet nevertheless, because being unsaved, they turn back to a trust in their works over His works for justification. These, the same as those described in the following verses and which supplements that assessment, I believe:
[Luk 8:13 KJV]
13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
[Heb 10:29 KJV]
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[2Pe 2:20-22 KJV]
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
You are not making sense and the scriptures you've cited prove that since they are contrary to the illogical argument you are making. Believe what you like, I'll not go around in endless circles with you.
God's gifts and his call are irrevocable (Romans 11:29) God Bless You Anni
God bless you, too, Fillan.
I was 1 Thessalonians 5:21 - ing myself.
Everything seems in order
God bless you, too, Fillan.
I was 1 Thessalonians 5:21 - ing myself.
Everything seems in order
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24~ May the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He Who calls you is faithful, and He will do it.
You asked me those questions - I replied to you, remember? So, the circles are yours. In any event, I don't like circles either.
. . . . .
Anni, if you once had the faith to believe John 3:16, God in His grace saved you forEVER. You can’t lose it. We all sin every now and then, but when we do, we repent and ask forgiveness from our heavenly Father.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
- Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
- John 3:16-17 (KJV)