Educational program for our church

[TinyKnight]

Hi Everyone! Here's a bit of a tricky situation. I would appreciate any wisdom or insights that anyone has.

There is a young man in our church who is a seminary graduate (M.Div.) who has served faithfully for six years in our church. This young man is a gifted teacher, exegete, and preacher. After volunteering for two years in the church teaching Sunday school and serving in a variety of church activities we nominated him in as an Elder of teaching ministry.

He's been teaching membership classes, baptism classes, teaching NT Greek, leading a small group, and writing a number of educational materials for the church along with a number of volunteer activities. The Senior Pastor asked this young man to write an adult educational curriculum for the church that we could use inner city believers covering the following topics: baptism, biblical doctrine, sharing one's testimony, ecclesiology, leadership, prayer, eldership, deacons, pastorship, spiritual gifts, and mission trip orientation.

This young man did as our senior pastor has asked, and produced an adult educational curriculum. This project has been about 2 1/2 years in the making, and is about 520+ pages in length, printed in 6 volumes. When he presented this finished work to the elders/leadership team, there was one deaconess in particular who despised this program saying it was "too religious" and "too academic." On her recommendation, the leadership of the church has decided not to move forward with the program.

The young man was devastated, and rather frustrated with the result. We've tried to explain that the church's decision is final and that we are moving forward with a simpler, and more practical education program for the church. The young man in question approached the treasurer and senior pastor of the church, asking for an explanation for the decision and to request an honorarium for the time and energy invested in the project. As a witness to these proceedings, this meeting got rather heated. The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven." I'm torn about how to handle this situation that seems unfortunate for everyone concerned.

What should we do as the senior leadership of the church? The senior pastor and elder team have met and asked this young man to step down from the leadership of the church, which he consented to do without incident. This young man and his wife have since left the church.

In wanting to learn how to handle this situation and others like it, did we make the right decision?

What Scripture and or wisdom would you recommend for how to handle this situation?

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

In wanting to learn how to handle this situation and others like it, did we make the right decision?

I am not God, but based upon what you have written and explained here, I would say that you (collectively) mishandled this situation terribly.

The Senior Pastor asked this young man to write an adult educational curriculum for the church that we could use inner city believers covering the following topics: baptism, biblical doctrine, sharing one's testimony, ecclesiology, leadership, prayer, eldership, deacons, pastorship, spiritual gifts, and mission trip orientation.

This young man did as our senior pastor has asked, and produced an adult educational curriculum. This project has been about 2 1/2 years in the making, and is about 520+ pages in length, printed in 6 volumes. When he presented this finished work to the elders/leadership team, there was one deaconess in particular who despised this program saying it was "too religious" and "too academic." On her recommendation, the leadership of the church has decided not to move forward with the program.

So, you penalized this young man for providing exactly what the senior pastor had asked for?

What you should have done was to show this "deaconess" the door...before helping her through it.

The problem with today's churches is not that they are "too religious" (in the context of what you explained) or "too academic." In fact, the real problem is that they are not "religious" (again, in the context of what you explained) and "academic" enough. Anybody who "despises" such things is a festering boil on the body of Christ.

The young man in question approached the treasurer and senior pastor of the church, asking for an explanation for the decision and to request an honorarium for the time and energy invested in the project. As a witness to these proceedings, this meeting got rather heated. The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven." I'm torn about how to handle this situation that seems unfortunate for everyone concerned.

I guess that "the senior pastor" never read that a laborer is worthy of his hire. I am glad that I do not attend your church.

This young man and his wife have since left the church.

Hey, finally some good news...from the perspectives of this man and his wife. Hopefully, they shook the dust off of their feet in departing. I would have.

What Scripture and or wisdom would you recommend for how to handle this situation?

Repent, and bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.

You asked.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven."

Your "senior pastor" seems to be a double-minded hypocrite.

On the one hand, he rejected what this young Christian man had presented to him.

On the other hand, he claimed that his reward is in heaven for what he himself rejected.

"The senior pastor" is the one who should truly be ashamed of himself.

Like I said, I am glad that I do not attend your church.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven."

Proverbs 22:24

"Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:"

Proverbs 29:22

"An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression."

 

[TinyKnight]

Thank you for your feedback and wisdom on this. When you say that a laborer is worthy of his hire, are you referring to I Timothy 5:17-18 "17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” "

Our senior pastor feels that this applies only to pastors, and that it is a 'community rule,' not necessarily something that all churches do. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

 

[TinyKnight]

Thanks for your feedback. Can you please share what you mean by this? What specifically should our church do to "bring forth fruits worthy of repentance?"

 

[Billyd]

Hi Everyone! Here's a bit of a tricky situation. I would appreciate any wisdom or insights that anyone has.

There is a young man in our church who is a seminary graduate (M.Div.) who has served faithfully for six years in our church. This young man is a gifted teacher, exegete, and preacher. After volunteering for two years in the church teaching Sunday school and serving in a variety of church activities we nominated him in as an Elder of teaching ministry.

He's been teaching membership classes, baptism classes, teaching NT Greek, leading a small group, and writing a number of educational materials for the church along with a number of volunteer activities. The Senior Pastor asked this young man to write an adult educational curriculum for the church that we could use inner city believers covering the following topics: baptism, biblical doctrine, sharing one's testimony, ecclesiology, leadership, prayer, eldership, deacons, pastorship, spiritual gifts, and mission trip orientation.

This young man did as our senior pastor has asked, and produced an adult educational curriculum. This project has been about 2 1/2 years in the making, and is about 520+ pages in length, printed in 6 volumes. When he presented this finished work to the elders/leadership team, there was one deaconess in particular who despised this program saying it was "too religious" and "too academic." On her recommendation, the leadership of the church has decided not to move forward with the program.

The young man was devastated, and rather frustrated with the result. We've tried to explain that the church's decision is final and that we are moving forward with a simpler, and more practical education program for the church. The young man in question approached the treasurer and senior pastor of the church, asking for an explanation for the decision and to request an honorarium for the time and energy invested in the project. As a witness to these proceedings, this meeting got rather heated. The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven." I'm torn about how to handle this situation that seems unfortunate for everyone concerned.

What should we do as the senior leadership of the church? The senior pastor and elder team have met and asked this young man to step down from the leadership of the church, which he consented to do without incident. This young man and his wife have since left the church.

In wanting to learn how to handle this situation and others like it, did we make the right decision?

What Scripture and or wisdom would you recommend for how to handle this situation?

I see two failures here. First, a failure to recognize the audience that the young man was writing for. If the church elders question the complexity of the curriculum, it is probably over the head of most of the congregation.

On the other hand, the pastor's direction was far to broad for a reasonable Adult Sunday School curriculum.

If I were in the young man's position, I would quietly leave the church. I would take the curriculum with me, break into a series of teacher's manuals, and publish them.

 

[TinyKnight]

I see two failures here. First, a failure to recognize the audience that the young man was writing for. If the church elders question the complexity of the curriculum, it is probably over the head of most of the congregation.

On the other hand, the pastor's direction was far to broad for a reasonable Adult Sunday School curriculum.

If I were in the young man's position, I would quietly leave the church. I would take the curriculum with me, break into a series of teacher's manuals, and publish them.

@Billyd Thank you for this feedback. I suspect you're right on both accounts.

Not sure if this helps or not, but the curriculum did come with "teacher's edition" and a "participant edition" for each volume which simplified everything for congregants and gave detailed, researched answers for teachers and leaders.

Never the less, I'm sure there is some that could be done to match audience and message. Thanks.

 

[Dino246]

Thank you for your feedback and wisdom on this. When you say that a laborer is worthy of his hire, are you referring to I Timothy 5:17-18 "17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” "

Our senior pastor feels that this applies only to pastors, and that it is a 'community rule,' not necessarily something that all churches do. Thoughts?

The senior pastor is wrong.

The young man was an elder whose job was preaching and teaching. There couldn't be a more specific fulfillment of verse 17. The senior pastor clearly is making up his own irrelevant interpretation to avoid dealing properly with the situation.

As you say, "We've tried to explain..." it appears you are on the leadership team. You made a serious mistake in having the young man step down from leadership when (according to the details you have provided), he had done nothing warranting such a demand (and it clearly was a demand, not a request).

You as a leadership team owe this man (and his wife) a written apology... which should be delivered with a significant honorarium. You also need to ensure that the young man retains copyright of all the materials he prepared, and your church needs to ensure that you don't retain any copies thereof... lest they be adopted even in part at some later date.

 

[TinyKnight]

The senior pastor is wrong.

The young man was an elder whose job was preaching and teaching. There couldn't be a more specific fulfillment of verse 17. The senior pastor clearly is making up his own irrelevant interpretation to avoid dealing properly with the situation.

As you say, "We've tried to explain..." it appears you are on the leadership team. You made a serious mistake in having the young man step down from leadership when (according to the details you have provided), he had done nothing warranting such a demand (and it clearly was a demand, not a request).

You as a leadership team owe this man (and his wife) a written apology... which should be delivered with a significant honorarium. You also need to ensure that the young man retains copyright of all the materials he prepared, and your church needs to ensure that you don't retain any copies thereof... lest they be adopted even in part at some later date.

@Dino246 Thank you for your wisdom on this matter. To the best of my understanding, this is the deal that was struck between the young man and our church: The church paid for the price of printing the curriculum, so the church retained all hard copies of it. The young man agreed that the church has the right to use the curriculum for non-commercial, ministry purposes. The young man was given one hard copy of the curriculum and copyrighted the original, digital files of the curriculum. He retains the right to use the curriculum for future ministry purposes if he so chooses.

The primary reason that the senior pastor is unwilling to pay this young man is because he asked for money "after the fact." Our senior pastor understood this to be a free, volunteer project, and felt that this is the way the project should remain. The young man objected and produced written evidence that the Pastor's original request to write the curriculum back in 2017 mentioned the idea of marketing the completed curriculum to other churches to meet the educational a ministry needs of other churches in the area. When the senior leadership team decided not to use the program, they turned down the option of marketing the materials as well.

Apparently the young man was under the impression that he was to receive a portion of the proceeds from the sale of the curriculum, which the senior pastor denies was ever part of the agreement. (The original asking document did not specify these details). I hope this offers a little bit of helpful context. I should have mentioned these details earlier.

 

[beaglehound]

Hi Everyone! Here's a bit of a tricky situation. I would appreciate any wisdom or insights that anyone has.

There is a young man in our church who is a seminary graduate (M.Div.) who has served faithfully for six years in our church. This young man is a gifted teacher, exegete, and preacher. After volunteering for two years in the church teaching Sunday school and serving in a variety of church activities we nominated him in as an Elder of teaching ministry.

He's been teaching membership classes, baptism classes, teaching NT Greek, leading a small group, and writing a number of educational materials for the church along with a number of volunteer activities. The Senior Pastor asked this young man to write an adult educational curriculum for the church that we could use inner city believers covering the following topics: baptism, biblical doctrine, sharing one's testimony, ecclesiology, leadership, prayer, eldership, deacons, pastorship, spiritual gifts, and mission trip orientation.

This young man did as our senior pastor has asked, and produced an adult educational curriculum. This project has been about 2 1/2 years in the making, and is about 520+ pages in length, printed in 6 volumes. When he presented this finished work to the elders/leadership team, there was one deaconess in particular who despised this program saying it was "too religious" and "too academic." On her recommendation, the leadership of the church has decided not to move forward with the program.

The young man was devastated, and rather frustrated with the result. We've tried to explain that the church's decision is final and that we are moving forward with a simpler, and more practical education program for the church. The young man in question approached the treasurer and senior pastor of the church, asking for an explanation for the decision and to request an honorarium for the time and energy invested in the project. As a witness to these proceedings, this meeting got rather heated. The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven." I'm torn about how to handle this situation that seems unfortunate for everyone concerned.

What should we do as the senior leadership of the church? The senior pastor and elder team have met and asked this young man to step down from the leadership of the church, which he consented to do without incident. This young man and his wife have since left the church.

In wanting to learn how to handle this situation and others like it, did we make the right decision?

What Scripture and or wisdom would you recommend for how to handle this situation?[/QUO

Hi Everyone! Here's a bit of a tricky situation. I would appreciate any wisdom or insights that anyone has.

There is a young man in our church who is a seminary graduate (M.Div.) who has served faithfully for six years in our church. This young man is a gifted teacher, exegete, and preacher. After volunteering for two years in the church teaching Sunday school and serving in a variety of church activities we nominated him in as an Elder of teaching ministry.

He's been teaching membership classes, baptism classes, teaching NT Greek, leading a small group, and writing a number of educational materials for the church along with a number of volunteer activities. The Senior Pastor asked this young man to write an adult educational curriculum for the church that we could use inner city believers covering the following topics: baptism, biblical doctrine, sharing one's testimony, ecclesiology, leadership, prayer, eldership, deacons, pastorship, spiritual gifts, and mission trip orientation.

This young man did as our senior pastor has asked, and produced an adult educational curriculum. This project has been about 2 1/2 years in the making, and is about 520+ pages in length, printed in 6 volumes. When he presented this finished work to the elders/leadership team, there was one deaconess in particular who despised this program saying it was "too religious" and "too academic." On her recommendation, the leadership of the church has decided not to move forward with the program.

The young man was devastated, and rather frustrated with the result. We've tried to explain that the church's decision is final and that we are moving forward with a simpler, and more practical education program for the church. The young man in question approached the treasurer and senior pastor of the church, asking for an explanation for the decision and to request an honorarium for the time and energy invested in the project. As a witness to these proceedings, this meeting got rather heated. The senior pastor was furious, saying that this young man is being selfish, should be ashamed of himself, and that "his reward is in heaven." I'm torn about how to handle this situation that seems unfortunate for everyone concerned.

What should we do as the senior leadership of the church? The senior pastor and elder team have met and asked this young man to step down from the leadership of the church, which he consented to do without incident. This young man and his wife have since left the church.

In wanting to learn how to handle this situation and others like it, did we make the right decision?

What Scripture and or wisdom would you recommend for how to handle this situation?

What I find disturbing is that one member of the board ( the Deaconess) would have such power where she could persuade all other members to go against adopting the curriculum.

Secondly, were there no considerations to modify or simplify the proposed curriculum? If not , why not?

Regarding honorariums, I have preached in my church numerous times as a lay preacher. I never expected an honorarium but always received one. I suppose it was for the time I invested in preparing my sermon message which was a lot of time. I always appreciated the gesture.

By the sounds of it this young man put a great deal of time and effort in writing up a curriculum which unfortunately was not well received.
While there may have been no discussion about monetary consideration for his efforts before taking on the assignment, common sense would prevail that some sort of monetary recognition would be warranted.
The way things sit now is that your church has lost a good member, someone has been deeply offended and reconciliation is needed. And this is where the senior pastor comes in since this is his flock and he played a significant role in this most unfortunate event.

Without knowing all of the facts I don't wish to pass judgement but when someone with the reputation this young man has ends up leaving the church then someone has clearly dropped the ball.
The Bible teaches us that if we have offended another we are to make it right before coming to the Lord's table. Clearly, an offense has taken place.
It appears much has been said that ought not to have been said. And perhaps on all sides.
There needs to be reconciliation and hopefully restoration.

 

[GreekEagle343]

Hi Everyone,

I've hesitated to post here because I don't want to bias anyone about this situation, but after reading the details of this thread it has become clear (the details make it obvious) that I am the "young man" in this story.

While I appreciate many of the thoughts and opinions shared on this thread, above all I would ask for your prayers. There are a lot of details left out of the story and I don't want to cause division, but I feel it is important to ask that this situation be bathed in prayer.

My wife and I have found a healthy church where we are volunteering and serving, and we want to serve Christ where He would have us.

Many of the things listed in this thread occurred in 2020, and there is still a lot of healing we need to do as a family. I would appreciate any prayers and words of wisdom/guidance anyone has to offer on this situation.

I've been praying that God would do a work of restoration in this situation. I would love to serve God in ministry, but it has been very difficult to trust the church after everything that has happened.

 

[beaglehound]

Hi Everyone,

I've hesitated to post here because I don't want to bias anyone about this situation, but after reading the details of this thread it has become clear (the details make it obvious) that I am the "young man" in this story.

While I appreciate many of the thoughts and opinions shared on this thread, above all I would ask for your prayers. There are a lot of details left out of the story and I don't want to cause division, but I feel it is important to ask that this situation be bathed in prayer.

My wife and I have found a healthy church where we are volunteering and serving, and we want to serve Christ where He would have us.

Many of the things listed in this thread occurred in 2020, and there is still a lot of healing we need to do as a family. I would appreciate any prayers and words of wisdom/guidance anyone has to offer on this situation.

I've been praying that God would do a work of restoration in this situation. I would love to serve God in ministry, but it has been very difficult to trust the church after everything that has happened.

Did I understand you correctly? This unfortunate event took place 3 years ago? Interesting Tinyknight is bringing it up 3 years later. Puzzling.
But perhaps our Lord is opening a door for those involved?
Before there can be restoration there needs to be reconciliation.

Reconciliation requires forgiveness, often from both sides. Restoration needs trust. That is difficult to renew and reconciliation does not always translate into restoration. For example a business partner is caught embezzling funds. The partner whom he embezzled from over time forgives but chooses never to go into partnership with the embezzler again. He cannot trust him.

Were there ever any apologies offered?

 

[GreekEagle343]

Beaglehound,

I treated my senior pastor to breakfast at a diner a few months back. He asked forgiveness and I forgave him, but I can't trust him.

 

[beaglehound]

Beaglehound,

I treated my senior pastor to breakfast at a diner a few months back. He asked forgiveness and I forgave him, but I can't trust him.

Glad to hear that you forgave him. You may never be able to trust him. Which doesn't mean you have not forgiven him. And given all that transpired it would be perfectly understandable not to trust him again.
Closure is very important.
From what you said earlier it sounds like you and your wife have moved on.

Has this senior pastor expressed interest in you and your wife returning?

 

[GreekEagle343]

Glad to hear that you forgave him. You may never be able to trust him. Which doesn't mean you have not forgiven him. And given all that transpired it would be perfectly understandable not to trust him again.
Closure is very important.
From what you said earlier it sounds like you and your wife have moved on.

Has this senior pastor expressed interest in you and your wife returning?

No, they have not asked us to return. The senior pastor did email me after we left and asked us not to leave, but by that point it was too late.

There were two individuals who reached out after we left. The associate pastor asked me to send him a digital copy of the curriculum I had made so that he could make changes to it and use it to write a new program for the church, and one other church member reached about after we left and repeatedly asked us to give her money to support their ministry, but no one reached out to make amends.

 

[beaglehound]

No, they have not asked us to return. The senior pastor did email me after we left and asked us not to leave, but by that point it was too late.

There were two individuals who reached out after we left. The associate pastor asked me to send him a digital copy of the curriculum I had made so that he could make changes to it and use it to write a new program for the church, and one other church member reached about after we left and repeatedly asked us to give her money to support their ministry, but no one reached out to make amends.

Are you going to send a digital copy? I thought they had a hard copy?

 

[GreekEagle343]

Are you going to send a digital copy? I thought they had a hard copy?

No. By the time the associate pastor asked to have a digital copy so he could make changes I had copyrighted the program. I respectfully told him that he could use the hard copy of the program as is.

 

[beaglehound]

No. By the time the associate pastor asked to have a digital copy so he could make changes I had copyrighted the program. I respectfully told him that he could use the hard copy of the program as is.

Okay, so you have copy written your material but gave consent to allow him to use the program anyway?

 

[GreekEagle343]

Correct. I copyrighted the program so that I would have the right to share it with others for future ministry if God in His grace allows. I gave the church permission to use the curriculum, but not to sell it. This isn't what they wanted. They wanted me to give them the original word documents so that they could "cut and paste" and make a new program out of what I wrote. Ultimately I wasn't willing to do that because I couldn't trust them to present the Biblical text faithfully.

More than anything, I would like to see my efforts bear kingdom fruit, rather than hundreds of hours of research, design, study, and writing go to waste. I wrote more material and did more research and spent more hours writing this one project than in all of my Master of Divinity seminary classes combined. It hurts that all my efforts were thrown away as worthless.

To be honest, I came to this church wanting to serve Christ with my whole life. It really hurts to be tossed aside like that. For two years afterward I considered leaving the organized church permanently (not my faith in Christ, this isn't His fault at all). Ultimately, however, if I am to serve Christ I need to do so in the context of Christian community.