Works Complete Faith?
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Yes, of course--facing the truth makes any honest man reconsider his position, but it is making you walk away from a discussion. It's hard to let traditions go, I know.
May God bless you as you remain in Christ.
---you have proved nothing of the sort -------you just think you prove it -----ONLY IN YOUR DREAMS -------
Everyone is waiting for your response to the answer provided you:
ONLY IN YOUR DREAMS -------
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evyaniy
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Is it even worth arguing about? Is it a question of salvation either way you understand those Scriptures? It is an age old academic debate that will never be solved to everyone's satisfaction. Can't both sides believe as it seems best to them?
1. It is good to exercise oneself in the Scripture, but especially together with Christians--it is edifying.
2. After praying about it, and talking about it, it really is resolved to my satisfaction.
If the others stick to their man-made traditions, that will not condemn them to destruction, I don't think, but I couldn't imagine the turmoil their cognitive dissonance must generate in them--unless they truthfully don't see it, then they can be satisfied when they shouldn't be.
At any rate, I wanted truth, I asked God for truth, and now I feel an even greater need to ask for more truth, so I will be set free and will bear fruit for God's glory and my joy.
Faith is a gift that we receive and is granted by the grace of God.
As for works, it is impossible to perform authentic Christian works, unless someone first has received the Holy Spirit.
To receive the Holy Spirit one must believe in Jesus Christ, fact.
Faith (to believe) comes first, then works follow from that faith.
Obviously our works are, in fact, God working in and through us.
I doubt whether anyone would seriously consider that anything in the spiritual realm. Can be directly traced to us.
Good works do bolster your faith but the first and only cause, is always Jesus Christ.
Boast in Jesus.
I totally agree it is only by grace through faith that our Christian lives are made possible, but that is not the question.
Romans 14:23 says the Christian who sins by doing what he doubts (Ro 14:5) is "condemned" not "justified".
James 2 speaks of this same issue of an ongoing need for justification by faith which is completed by works.
We know that "this is our victory, even our faith", so believers are "more than conquerors", yet Jesus says "to the one who overcomes", so, this idea of "already but not yet" pervades Christian doctrine--and justification and salvation is yet another.
"Now we are children of God, but it has not yet appeared what we shall be"
"The true light has already begun to shine, and the darkness is passing away"
I could go on and on.
We have the spirit of adoption, and yet we are not fully adopted yet--the body will be redeemed, and we will exhibit no resistance to God's will, but will have the glorious liberty of the sons of God (because we will be fully free to do as we please, because our pleasure will be God's will with no resistance in us, after we see Christ--"set your hope FULLY upon the grace to be revealed at the revelation of the Son of God").
In the Word, in prophecy, there are down payments/deposits, and then there are the grand spectacular full fulfillments.
"The way of the righteous is as the rising of the Sun, which gets brighter and brighter until the full noon day."
The Sun has risen, yet it is not yet full noon day.
So it is with justification--we are justified, and Christ has obtained many things for us, and YET it is only those who WALK in those things who will ultimately experience the full fulfillment of those things, whereas those who are "leavened" but who continue to hold on to "leaven" and not "purge it out" will not.
As to the verse I put in bold ^ ,
I think the BLB gives the proper sense of this verse:
"Therefore having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober-minded, set
--in verses (about Jesus) where there is NO definite article with the word "revelation" (as in this verse ^ )... it is not speaking of His future coming, in Person; rather, it speaks to the here and now (the grace "being brought to you in revelation of"--in the here and now);
--in verses (about Jesus) where there IS a definite article with the word "revelation" ("the revelation")... it IS speaking of His future coming, in Person
This changes how one perceives what verse 13 is actually conveying (it is not "TO BE" revealed, but "the grace BEING BROUGHT to you IN REVELATION OF Jesus Christ"... that is, in the here and now--"Set hope" on that [on that specific thing].)
Galatians 6:14 - God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
1 Corinthians 1:18-21 explains a lot.
Those who teach "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door boast in self at the back door and are in serious error. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..)
What I read in 1 John 3 actually supplies backup to the reading...
1 John 3
2Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope set on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
....but I could look further into it.
On the contrary, it is trusting fully in the grace of God brought to us through the Cross that we are more than conquerors in our daily WALK/RACE of faith. Those who have a habit of WALKING by grace through faith daily are REVEALING GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM FAITH TO FAITH (not their own righteousness) (Ro 1:16), and will have the FULL PAYMENT justification at the eschatological judgment (Ro 2:6-16)!!
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evyaniy
Guest
No matter which side you take, doing or resulting good works is the objective. Can doing good for others be wrong if you are doing it because of your faith in Messiah? It is in our power to do so. Plus, how much is enough? Is there some certain amount of good works expected of believers to secure their salvation? What about those who believed towards the end of their life?
No, we are already justified and at peace with God by grace through faith NOW
And those people who accept that God Is With Us who are given the grace to break the bonds of sin NOW
And more and more as time goes on
And finally we will see Him face to face and see Him as He is we will PERFECTLY with NO RESISTANCE in us (because even our FLESH will be redeemed) be PERFECTLY and GLORIOUSLY LIBERTY... though it says we already are liberated (Ro 8:2; Gal 5:1). Why would it say we ARE ALREADY liberated and yet we will have GLORIOUS LIBERTY in the future? Because we only have the down payment for now, but, then, the FULL PAYMENT!
So it is with justification and salvation--yes, it's true NOW, and it will be FULLY TRUE THEN!!
PRAISE GOD!
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evyaniy
Guest
Hebrews 10
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
It has not yet "APPEARED" because it hasn't taken place yet.
But WHEN it happens, it will have "APPEARED [G5319 - manifested forth]". =D
This next verse, here ^ , states the facts of the matter.
"But WE KNOW" [!!]
[very important wording there ^
]This verse ^ is stating the effects (on us, in the here and now), on those of us having [/knowing] this "hope" [fact]...
Yes, therefore, the present hope ("hope that has appeared is not hoped for") is efficacious, grace-giving, empowering, praise God!It has not yet "APPEARED" because it hasn't taken place yet.
But WHEN it happens, it will have "APPEARED [G5319 - manifested forth]". =D
This next verse, here ^ , states the facts of the matter.
"But WE KNOW" [!!]
[very important wording there ^
This verse ^ is stating the effects (on us, in the here and now), on those of us having [/knowing] this "hope" [fact]...
E
evyaniy
Guest
1 Corinthians 3
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but EL that giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9. For we are labourers together with EL: ye are EL's husbandry, ye are EL's building.
10. According to the grace of EL which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other Foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Messiah Yeshua.
12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but EL that giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9. For we are labourers together with EL: ye are EL's husbandry, ye are EL's building.
10. According to the grace of EL which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11. For other Foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Messiah Yeshua.
12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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