Is God's Grace Sufficient to Keep Us from Sinning?

[romans113336]

The command in the 10 commandments is a specific form of lying

People consistently get this wrong--the Scripture never says "do not lie".
What is more, Rahab, the prostitute, was JUSTIFIED by her righteous deed of "lying".
Paul also engaged in much sactified lying.
Lying is only wrong when it is self-serving, as all sin is selfishness, but not when done for God.
Christ taught, "be shrewd as serpents".

 

[Truthnightmare]

People consistently get this wrong--the Scripture never says "do not lie".
What is more, Rahab, the prostitute, was JUSTIFIED by her righteous deed of "lying".
Paul also engaged in much sactified lying.
Lying is only wrong when it is self-serving, as all sin is selfishness, but not when done for God.
Christ taught, "be shrewd as serpents".

Interesting interpretation…
Genesis 20:2
And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah
Lie?

 

[romans113336]

Interesting interpretation…
Genesis 20:2
And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah
Lie?

Yes, of course Abraham lied, but I'm not sure it was "sanctified" lying, since he did it out of fear.

Genesis 20
"You have done things to me that should not be done." And Abimelech asked Abraham, "What was your reason for doing this?" Abraham replied, "I said to myself, `There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.'"

He didn't do it for God's glory.

 

[Magenta]

Interesting interpretation…
Genesis 20:2
And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah
Lie?

Abraham and Sarah were half siblings: same father but different mother.

Genesis 20:12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father—
though not the daughter of my mother—and she became my wife.

 

[romans113336]

Abraham and Sarah were half siblings: same father but different mother.

1. According to the Jews, she was actually his half niece--but they didn't have a word for that when the text was written.

2. Abraham admitted he lied (Gen 20).

 

[Truthnightmare]

Abraham and Sarah were half siblings: same father but different mother.

Genesis 20:12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father—
though not the daughter of my mother—and she became my wife.

Very good catch!!!! Awesome!!!

Ok kido…..
And he came unto his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I; who art thou, my son?
19 And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau
What ya think?

 

[Truthnightmare]

1. According to the Jews, she was actually his half niece--but they didn't have a word for that when the text was written.

2. Abraham admitted he lied (Gen 20).

What verse does Abraham admit to lying?

 

[romans113336]

What verse does Abraham admit to lying?

Genesis 20
9Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
10And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

He didn't say, "No, I was right," he conceded, "As you have said, I did wrong to you--but it was because I was afraid!"

 

[Truthnightmare]

Genesis 20
9Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
10And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

He didn't say, "No, I was right," he conceded, "As you have said, I did wrong to you--but it was because I was afraid!"

Yup…

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Technically he didn’t lie, and if Abimelech would have not been so thirsty he wouldn’t been caught in this situation…

He just met Sarah and he takes her quickly.
Gen 20:2
and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

 

[romans113336]

Yup…

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Technically he didn’t lie, and if Abimelech would have not been so thirsty he wouldn’t been caught in this situation…

He just met Sarah and he takes her quickly.
Gen 20:2
and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

No, God justifies Abimelech

Genesis 20
6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

 

[romans113336]

Yup…

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Technically he didn’t lie, and if Abimelech would have not been so thirsty he wouldn’t been caught in this situation…

He just met Sarah and he takes her quickly.
Gen 20:2
and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

1. Technically, he did lie inasmuch as his response gave them a false impression.

2. His lie is not sanctified, because he did it out of fear, not for God's glory. At least that would be how I would see it (for now--I could learn something about it in the future that could make me change my mind).

 

[Truthnightmare]

No, God justifies Abimelech

Genesis 20
6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

Good point… But good points often materialize into questions.
So if Abimelechs actions were justified by his integrity, why did God withhold him from sinning?
What would have been Abimelechs sin if God did not intervene?

 

[romans113336]

Good point… But good points often materialize into questions.
So if Abimelechs actions were justified by his integrity, why did God withhold him from sinning?
What would have been Abimelechs sin if God did not intervene?

In other words, "I know you wouldn't have taken her had you known she was taken--therefore, I kept you from accidentally doing the wrong you did not intend to do (by making it impossible for you to have any sex at all)."

If he was single, it is acceptable that he would've taken her immediately, because of her great beauty, not because he was "thirsty". Isaac's messenger immediately chose Rebekah for his wife. Jacob immediately chose Rachel.

If he was not single, being a King, God apparently "accepted" that he would have had many wives and/or concubines--just as He permitted the Jews, in the Torah, the concession (and there are many in Torah) of "any cause divorce", because of the hardness of their hearts, which Jesus nullifies, rejecting it as adultery, restoring the higher standard God established in Genesis 1 (Mt 19).

 

[Truthnightmare]

In other words, "I know you wouldn't have taken her had you known she was taken--therefore, I kept you from accidentally doing the wrong you did not intend to do (by making it impossible for you to have any sex at all)."

If he was single, it is acceptable that he would've taken her immediately, because of her great beauty, not because he was "thirsty". Isaac's messenger immediately chose Rebekah for his wife. Jacob immediately chose Rachel.

If he was not single, being a King, God apparently "accepted" that he would have had many wives and/or concubines--just as He permitted the Jews, in the Torah, the concession (and there are many in Torah) of "any cause divorce", because of the hardness of their hearts, which Jesus nullifies, rejecting it as adultery, restoring the higher standard God established in Genesis 1 (Mt 19).

Let’s say should was not taken… Would it have been acceptable to God for Abimelech to take Sarah to wife?

 

[romans113336]

Let’s say should was not taken… Would it have been acceptable to God for Abimelech to take Sarah to wife?

In my view, yes. Why not? God made people for marriage.
I hopefully will never be married--always been single (intentionally).

 

[romans113336]

Good point… But good points often materialize into questions.
So if Abimelechs actions were justified by his integrity, why did God withhold him from sinning?
What would have been Abimelechs sin if God did not intervene?

In other words, had He not intervened, Abimelech would have committed adultery--but, since he feared God, and would not have knowingly committed adultery, God prevented him from unknowingly committing adultery.

 

[timemeddler]

wouldn't have been much point in this verse if we could manage to live without any sin. There are some arrogant types "who are without sin" that'll try to get around this verse saying things like, it's only sin if I know I'm sinning, or no longer counts as sin, but from a practical perspective we all do things that are sinful off and on.

1 john 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul explained he had a thorn in his flesh (caused him to sin) to keep him humble. I can't imagine that demon giving him a single day off.

Not a demon. A physical disability. Paul could easily cast out demons. But God would not heal his disability. Satan used this disability to trouble Paul. It was probably the result of Satan's attacks on Paul through his enemies. We do really know.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have encountered Christians who say that they sin every day.

If they choose to sin, then that is a problem. If they happen to sin, then they will be very careful to avoid sinning again.

 

[Truthnightmare]

In other words, had He not intervened, Abimelech would have committed adultery--but, since he feared God, and would not have knowingly committed adultery, God prevented him from unknowingly committing adultery.

Was Abimelech a

In other words, had He not intervened, Abimelech would have committed adultery--but, since he feared God, and would not have knowingly committed adultery, God prevented him from unknowingly committing adultery.

Fair…
Putting adultery to the side…
Was Sarah a heathen?
Was Abimelech a heathen?

Are Adamics, Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham etc. allowed to marry heathens?