Is there a difference between being saved and salvation, and the new covenant?

[Truthnightmare]

Why do you say this?

Post 300

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Yea…. I see what what you mean… think about it like a math equation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I am saved by Grace…but only if “faith” exist.
If I remove “faith” then “Grace” can’t come through faith. No faith, no grace.

James 1
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

Without faith, grace is dead, and without works “faith” is dead.

Moreover, we are not judged by grace or faith.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

James 2
Yea, a man may say, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

You wrote: "Without faith, grace is dead, " and I can say that this is false. You don't make God's grace work. God has grace and you have faith and together you are saved. Otherwise you are not yet saved.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think that anything is irrelevant.

Matthew 15:24 NKJV - But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

He also said He had sheep not of this fold.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Then why are you bringing it up

He also said He had sheep not of this fold.

Because I am a Gentile and not a natural branch.

Do you believe that He was talking about Israel here? I don't.

 

[Magenta]

That is not the new covenant though, as far as I know. The new covenant is only spoken of in a few places, and God said He would make a new covenant with Israel and I believe Him, through the prophet Jeremiah.

Gentiles were always included.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Gentiles were always included.

You could become a part of Israel if you wanted to. Or, just believe in God as a Gentile.

 

[Magenta]

You could become a part of Israel if you wanted to. Or, just believe in God as a Gentile.

There is neither Jew nor Greek (gentile) in Christ Jesus. You seem confused.

 

[Mem]

Interesting. I am unfamiliar with this.

When do you think that God either made or will make a new covenant with Israel?

 

[Cameron143]

Yea…. I see what what you mean… think about it like a math equation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I am saved by Grace…but only if “faith” exist.
If I remove “faith” then “Grace” can’t come through faith. No faith, no grace.

James 1
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

Without faith, grace is dead, and without works “faith” is dead.

Moreover, we are not judged by grace or faith.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

James 2
Yea, a man may say, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Faith is also a gift that comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

There is neither Jew nor Greek (gentile) in Christ Jesus. You seem confused.

A Gentile is a person who belongs to a Gentile nation, a non-Israelite. Not of the nation of Israel. I am not confused.

Jew Greek

Romans 1:16 NASB20 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9-10 NASB20 - [There will be] tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:12 NASB20 - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

Galatians 3:28 NASB20 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 NASB20 - [a renewal] in which there is no [distinction between] Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, [and] free, but Christ is all, and in all.

Of these I am male and circumcised (for sanitary reasons). I am neither a Greek nor a Jew. I am a Gentile. I belong to the Gentile nation The United States Of America. I was born in Washington State. In Seattle. At Riverton Hospital. In King County.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

When do you think that God either made or will make a new covenant with Israel?

In the first century, or when Jesus came.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In the first century, or when Jesus came.

And of course -- according to you -- Christ simply excluded all Gentiles!

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

And of course -- according to you -- Christ simply excluded all Gentiles!

No. Not at all. Gentiles can be saved as well. I am not convinced that this is by the new covenant though. I am open to correction if I am wrong.

 

[Nehemiah6]

No. Not at all. Gentiles can be saved as well. I am not convinced that this is by the new covenant though. I am open to correction if I am wrong.

No you are NOT open to correction. You have a totally flawed view of the New Testament, the New Covenant, and salvation. The question is whether you are willing to give it up. And who influenced you in your erroneous beliefs? You should run away from that person.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

No you are NOT open to correction. You have a totally flawed view of the New Testament, the New Covenant, and salvation. The question is whether you are willing to give it up. And who influenced you in your erroneous beliefs? You should run away from that person.

I have asked if salvation and the new covenant are the same thing. I know that they are not. But they may be related.

For example, a sinner can pray a prayer of salvation and be saved without knowing anything about Israel's new covenant.

You say that someone influenced me. But I believe the Bible.

 

[Mem]

Think of product that was once the most trendy thing since sliced bread but since have been rendered 'obsolete,' by new and improved 'upgrades.' This is what makes the new covenant different from the old? The new makes the old obsolete. That is, there's no use for it anymore, since it can't do what the new is more efficient in doing, it is rendered useless.

Luke 22:20
"the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you"

1 John 2:2
"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

The new covenant in Jesus' blood is an effective atonement for the sins of the whole world.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Think of product that was once the most trendy thing since sliced bread but since have been rendered 'obsolete,' by new and improved 'upgrades.' This is what makes the new covenant different from the old? The new makes the old obsolete. That is, there's no use for it anymore, since it can't do what the new is more efficient in doing, it is rendered useless.

Luke 22:20
"the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you"

1 John 2:2
"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

The new covenant in Jesus' blood atones for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2 NASB20 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

When Jeremiah communicated that there was a new covenant coming, was it then that the old covenant was becoming obsolete, or once Jesus arrived?

 

[Mem]

1 John 2:2 NASB20 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

When Jeremiah communicated that there was a new covenant coming, was it then that the old covenant was becoming obsolete, or once Jesus arrived?

After God declares the new covenant in Jeremiah 31, He concludes in v. 38, "The days are coming..."
And the Jeremiah declaration is cited in Hebrews 8:8-12 and Hebrews 10: 16-17

And Hebrews 10: 18 is written:
And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

After God declares the new covenant in Jeremiah 31, He concludes in v. 38, "The days are coming..."
And the Jeremiah declaration is cited in Hebrews 8:8-12 and Hebrews 10: 16-17

And Hebrews 10: 18 is written:
And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed.

Right.

 

[Mem]

Right.

So, if Jesus' offering covers the sin of the world, then salvation comes to the world, and the world can be saved. I guess I'm trying to understand how you've come to separate salvation from being saved.